For those who say our defensive scheme is too "vanilla"

[FINFAN38]

In your comparison of "D"s where are the corners? Our top THREE is better than their best one. None of their corners could play in our system. Fletcher (our 4th) would play cover 2 well though. It is easy to play D while watching the QB all the time.

 

[finfan54]

Originally posted by justafan


If that's the way the Pats played us then we would've beaten them, but noooooo, they had to throw different D shcemes and confused the hell out of Einstien even.

This year will be different, we've hired better coaches.

better coaches. anybody that becomes a bill has become better, notice that? that loser head coach for cincy is now a bill and is a great coach. But if he were a fin, he would be another dave wannstedt who was a loser at chicago and is no good.

Bills fans and media. all the same. they feed on each other. and the media is the first one to come to reality by game 8.

 

[finfan54]

Re: For those who say our defensive scheme is too "vanilla"

Originally posted by DrAstroZoom
... consider the words of The Sporting News's Dan Pompeii.



It's all about execution. Towards the end of last season -- particularly on the road -- our very talented defense had several costly mental lapses. This is not the result of a faulty defensive scheme, it is an aberration.

What the Dolphins have lacked is not fancy formations or confounding blitzes. It's something much simpler: mental toughness. It's not something you can necessarily coach, nor is it something individual athletes may possess. It is a team mentality of tenacious precision that is borne out of chemistry and fostered by fiery leadership.

That's why I think the Dolphins have made the right moves this offseason. I think the unit we're putting together can execute what some may view as a "vanilla" defense at such a level of precision as to more closely resemble vanilla ice cream: simple, sweet and chilling to opponents.

i partially disagree. the green bay packer MNF game showed me that we didnt go after Farve when he was hurt. we played back on the Dline. why we do that ill never know.
But we dont use our linebackers at all. seau will change that obviously cus bates is now forced to becuase of what seau can do.
But i disagree that tampas D is vanilla. there DB's switch to cover two alot and vice versa. There LB's were used differently. which ours should be this year.

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

Dolphins blitzed. They generally got beat when they blitzed. The only thing they should do is change up thier coverages a little more.

 

[Barbarian]

One big difference between Tamps D and Miami's, when Tampa went amn to man, they put X cornerback on X reciever and let him stick with the guy even when they moved the reciever around.

In miami, we lined up out CB's and let them cover whomever lined up opposite, thats how mismatches like Moss on Fletcher got shoved down our throats.

Also, Tampa did blitz more often than Miami, but not much, big difference though, the personalle they blitzed and the timing of the blitzes.

They didn't do much, but their D-Coordinator played it smart... I'd call it vanilla with chocolate chips inside.

 

[wahwee]

How can anyone say that Tbay blitzed "smarter"? Because it worked? The reason why Tampa has a dominant defense is because they have the best front four in football, not because of smarter blitzes. Let's look at the dlines:

Rice vs Taylor. Taylor is better, but Rice can bring consistent pressure too (though he doesn't have to beat double/triple teams at all, like Taylor does every play).

Sapp and Mcfarland, as was pointed out, both can provide a passrush (and sapp gets double teamed alot). We send in Williams, D. Bowens, and/or Burnett to provide interior pass rush, and, while they do a good job, they are not DT's.

Spires vs Ogun. I'd consider these two equal, though Adewale should be making a step up this next year.

The difference between our d and Tampa's is that the linemen who get singled up wreak havoc, whereas Taylor is our only consistent threat. We just need Ogun to continue to develop and we'll be on our way.

PS The reason we couldn't get pressure on Favre on MNF was because they were playing max protection all game long to keep people off him. Our blitzes (which we did try in this game) were beaten by screens and quick passes. The reason we lost that game was because of stupid fumbles by Rob Konrad and Cris Carter early on, so we couldn't keep pace.

 

[ohall]

Originally posted by wahwee
How can anyone say that Tbay blitzed "smarter"? Because it worked? The reason why Tampa has a dominant defense is because they have the best front four in football, not because of smarter blitzes. Let's look at the dlines:

Rice vs Taylor. Taylor is better, but Rice can bring consistent pressure too (though he doesn't have to beat double/triple teams at all, like Taylor does every play).

Sapp and Mcfarland, as was pointed out, both can provide a passrush (and sapp gets double teamed alot). We send in Williams, D. Bowens, and/or Burnett to provide interior pass rush, and, while they do a good job, they are not DT's.

Spires vs Ogun. I'd consider these two equal, though Adewale should be making a step up this next year.

The difference between our d and Tampa's is that the linemen who get singled up wreak havoc, whereas Taylor is our only consistent threat. We just need Ogun to continue to develop and we'll be on our way.

PS The reason we couldn't get pressure on Favre on MNF was because they were playing max protection all game long to keep people off him. Our blitzes (which we did try in this game) were beaten by screens and quick passes. The reason we lost that game was because of stupid fumbles by Rob Konrad and Cris Carter early on, so we couldn't keep pace.

Well as far as I'm concerned you won't be successful as long as you are using Zach Thomas as your main blitzer. As good as Zach is at making tackles and covering receivers out of the backfield, he is just as bad at blitzing the QB. He's simply too small.

With Seau blitzing and Zach covering I think this D will have great success from the blitz.

Oliver...

 

[Dajesus]

The differince is very simple. The Bucs had 4 pass rushers that coudl get the job done every down. We barely had amiddle pass rush, and JT could be controlled because we didn't have a threat behjind him at LB. The other big differince is the Bucs had 3 really good LBs. We had 1, and 2 guys that wouldn't start on 90% of NFL teams.

 

[Muck]

One advantage we have on the Bucs is run defense. It has been showed time and time again that those two "superior" DTs can be run roughshod over, while Timbo and Chester simply do not give it up inside.

McFarland and Sapp are smaller, pass rushing DTs, whereas our guys are big brick walls. Sapp is no longer the player he once was.

As was mentioned above, they are two completely different defensive schemes. The major difference is that one team has one a championship.

 

[wahwee]

I didn't think Zach was that bad at blitzing, in that he did cause several hurries, and forced the qb into sacks as well. Zach's problem is that he allows the rb or te to catch the ball far too often, though he always wraps up well. It would be nice to see him bat the ball away though instead of allowing the easy 5 yard gain, because I'm pretty sure every coordinator in the league would love to have a 5 yard money play.

Great point muck on the tampa interior. They are very susceptible to the run, and can be pounded into submission. I think we match up very well against them, and if we faced them, we would have won (instead, we watched at home, I know, all you bills fans). Tampa does well in the NFC because there are currently very few physical teams out there to contend with. New Orleans beat them twice by running the ball.

 

[Danny]

well, till we win it all with our defense being dominant at home and on the ROAD week in and week out, then I'd have to say that Tampa's D is better than ours. Do we have more talent? Posibly, but we still have to go out there and do it, specially on the road and then in the playoffs. Tampa has done it and we haven't done it and we have to face it. I think we can do it this year but we still have to go out and do it. Nothing that we say here really matters. They don't play the games on paper.Believe me, I love our team but what's fair is fair. They have done it and we haven't done it yet.

 

[DrAstroZoom]

Danny, you've brought the discussion back to where I started it. Our problem has not been schemes, it has been the ability to execute the scheme with precision aggressiveness. I think the key personnel we've added will help us in that department.

 

[BeatCrazy2]

It seems like our simple defensive scheme works just fine for the majority of the game. Its just that after we do the same thing over and over and our D becomes fatigued, things start to change . The teams seem to figure us out at just the wrong time. I think that we got some excellent playmakers and great leaders this year and that will help us tremendously, but if we don't switch things up once in a while than we won't go deep in the playoffs. Its very hard for them to get pressure on the QB when they are tired and the other teams O line knows exactly where there coming from. We just need to surprise some people by blitzing and shooting some gaps. I don't think we need any major changes, just a few tricks here and there.

 

[XoPhinsoX]

We can dominate the first 3 quarters but something seems to happen in the 4th quarter.

Either we change our scheme and become to conservative or they figure it out and we never change it up to counter-act that.

But I guess our mentality is "Our guys are better then yours, so you beat us at our game".
I would think being small would be an upside to blitzing.

 

[MDFINFAN]

Originally posted by Phinstd
Well you guys can think and speculate all you want. This team has not proven anything on a football field and the Bucs have.

I think this team can be good, but we will need to be creative and stop thinking we can just be better than everyone else on D. Coaches make the money they do for a reason, they can design matchups to give players trouble.

Also, you can't just line up players and pick who's you rather have and count the numbers up. The players we have who are better are only slightly so. Sapp and McFarland are far better players than Timbo and Chester. Plus, they actually give a push to the QB. Something our DT's do not do, nor are they supposed to. Another reason you can't compare these two D's. I've found it funny we always compare ourselves to a one gap defensive line playing, zone cover-2 defensive backfield who plays completely different LB schemes as well. Their top LB is an OLB, ours is a MLB. They do completely different things.

We use a two gap D-line, press man to man coverage deep S defensive backfield. Lynch is like another LB, our S do not do that.

Completely different defenses.

Also funny how if Pompei says something you agree with you use it as an example, but if he dogs on the Phins he's an idiot.

You ask how I know the Phins won't be dominant? Because I've watched close to the same team each year a year younger as well not be.

Let me ask you how you know they WILL be dominant? Because you want them to? Not a great example to go by there buddy.

This team needs to be creative and use the talent we have, CB's who can cover should be allowed to do so and the other players should pressure at times it is needed.

Phin for D Coord...now you need to get to Wanny and let him know what you're going to do and why...:D