Forget Martin, CK just ended Ireland's career | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Forget Martin, CK just ended Ireland's career

my biggest problem with CK is his attitude. particularly when somebody questions him. thats all.

before he left here, more and more people were debating with him. he got confrontational IMO, and as a result has left for another site and I have seen first hand his trashing FH and its members.

He told me via PM that he would sample some posts here but otherwise would take a break for a while. There was no indication it was permanent.

ck prefers management at the other site. That's the gist of it. He said there was one thread here in which posters were debating him and piling on a little bit. He didn't mind that, said it was normal and he appreciated the give and take. But he thought some of the posters with titles nearby their names had overstepped the appropriate boundaries. I have to say I sampled those threads and agreed with him. Lately the administrators have been admirably restrained given this Incognito/Martin mess but sometimes I see a post and wonder what they are thinking. On other boards that I frequent the top guys stand out as voice of reason. You step back and appreciate. Here at times they are responsible for the most juvenile input of all.
 
Ck was/is a very good poster. No one is perfect and of course he has been wrong or said something stupid before. I'm not understanding the hate for him I have seen lately.

The hate toward CK is pretty simple, imo. One word. Jealousy.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Or, in this case, hell has no fury like a pack of women scorned -- and they got nothing in return.

Except empty drama.

LD
 
He told me via PM that he would sample some posts here but otherwise would take a break for a while. There was no indication it was permanent.

ck prefers management at the other site. That's the gist of it. He said there was one thread here in which posters were debating him and piling on a little bit. He didn't mind that, said it was normal and he appreciated the give and take. But he thought some of the posters with titles nearby their names had overstepped the appropriate boundaries. I have to say I sampled those threads and agreed with him. Lately the administrators have been admirably restrained given this Incognito/Martin mess but sometimes I see a post and wonder what they are thinking. On other boards that I frequent the top guys stand out as voice of reason. You step back and appreciate. Here at times they are responsible for the most juvenile input of all.

CK = Jon Martin. So who does that make Richie in this scenario? WV?
 
CK = Jon Martin. So who does that make Richie in this scenario? WV?

Wait a second here.

I havent said a damn word in this thread or for that matter the last several threads that included this type of discussion. Why are you bringing me into it?

In fact, the only acknowledgement I have made towards CK in the last few weeks or so was to "thumbs up" a couple of his posts from the other day. Not only that, I gave him a ton of credit in a thread of his that SOMEONE ELSE bumped the other day. Oh wait..... I guess this does make me Incognito in this situation. :err::lol:

I guess since Im going to be brought in whether I like it or not, I may as well throw my 2 cents in......

1. Anyone hating on CK for his writing or how he gets his material is being ridiculous. CK is a great writer. Thats probably why he has gone pretty far in the world of journalism. While he may not be at the top of the profession, he is pretty close. Give the guy credit for that.

2. Whoever suggest CK just copies stuff from other places.... get real. He uses information from other sources to make opinions. If Im not mistaken, thats called referencing. I believe all writers do it.

.

4. While CK is no more right or wrong consistently with his opinions than most, I can understand why a lot of people always side with him. He writes well and puts a lot of work into his stuff. I cant knock that. But, there is some legitimacy to the idea that CK dosent handle someone disagreeing with him so well. I know I can be guilty of that sometimes too, but it is not uncommon for CK to come across as condescending about it. I think the problem lies with so many people ganging up on people who have a different view from his. CK needs to realize that when so many posters back his every word, he becomes a leader to them. When he gets bent out of shape over someone disagreeing with him, those who falsely think his opinions are gold will do the same thing.

5. To knock CK for his NFLN appearance is a bit silly. While he did get owned by Paul Bermeister(and Bermeister had some great points btw) CK still managed to make it that far. Again, this is likely because CK is a good writer who puts a lot of time and effort into what he does. While we may say a player who makes it to a training camp and gets a few minutes in a preseason game before being cut is a bum, fact is he made it pretty far. In reality he dosent suck as a football player. You have to be good to even sniff the big leagues. While that player may be a bum compared to players who stick in the league, you still have to respect that he got where he did. I dont think its unfair to make wisecracks about CK getting clowned by Bermeister(I have done so myself) but, in the end I respect that he even got on NFLN.

At the same time, people shouldnt act like that fact makes CK's opinion superior to others on the board. Honestly, there are a good number of posters on this board who's opinions are typically spot on when you look back. I would argue that there are many who's opinions I would trust over CK's. While they may not be as good at writing as CK is, they are much better at evaluating football. Just look at Omar Kelly. Fact is he is a better writer than most people. Thats why he has a journalism degree and a job as a beat writer for one of the big papers. However, I think most of us know that Omar Kelly's opinions are dog****. I just dont get why there is a different standard among posters here with CK.


In the end I wish everyone would drop all of this CK drama. I hope he comes back and posts more regularly. I also hope that if I choose to disagree with his view it dosent go the route some of our disagreements have. Especially the last one where it turns out he was spot on and I was wrong..... :lol:
 
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Always loved reading CK's posts, just like quite a few on here, there are a good load of really intelligent, knowledgeable posters on here and that is great (off the top of my head WV, Hayden, Hooshoops, Sobe, I'm sure I'm missing loads). There are obviously some numpties too, but that is to be expected.

As for Ireland I'm happy to give him another year or two, he is here to get the type of players Philbin wants and then it is up to Philbin to make the best out of them, this takes time. Last year's draft I feel was very good, and I agree with another poster that Philbin wants to insert younger players into the lineup slower than other coaches, and it's the 'Green Bay' MO. You would expect Starks and Soliai to have better grades than a younger player. I wonder how many players we have from the Parcells era now, we have something like the 2nd youngest roster in the league.
 
While we may say a player who makes it to a training camp and gets a few minutes in a preseason game before being cut is a bum, fact is he made it pretty far. In reality he dosent suck as a football player. You have to be good to even sniff the big leagues. While that player may be a bum compared to players who stick in the league, you still have to respect that he got where he did.

What an incredibly perceptive insight. Just to make it to camp means you're a one in ten thousand player. It really bothers me when people describe players who are better than 99.999% of the football players in the world as bums. They are actually exceptional athletes.
 
What an incredibly perceptive insight. Just to make it to camp means you're a one in ten thousand player. It really bothers me when people describe players who are better than 99.999% of the football players in the world as bums. They are actually exceptional athletes.

Lol ... it's relative to the other, more exceptional athletes around them. For example ... Pat White; incredible athlete and college football player. By NFL standards? He sucks.
 
I've backed CK a few times over the last few months (when the "drama" took off), and I've disagreed with CK more than a few times, and we've discussed matters back and forth more than a few times. In my dealings with him, I've never found him to be unreasonable in his methods of debate. In fact, I enjoy the times I disagree with CK (as I do with Slimm and hoops), because you know when you enter into one of those discussions, you're going to get a differing view backed by information. It doesn't mean that I always come out agreeing with any of them, but sometimes I do, and when I don't, I feel much stronger in my stance, because it's been tested by someone who knows what he's talking about. Some posters, I think, get frustrated, because they disagree with CK, and they feel strongly, but they don't have the information to really argue back. That's not meant to be a blanket statement. I know of posters here who have been frustrated with CK, because they don't like how he presents himself. To me, that's valid. Some of those posters are quality contributors to the board.

Also, for what it's worth, there are a number of posters besides CK, Slimm, and hoops who offer outstanding analysis. You know who you are. Not going to make a list, but since he posted recently on this thread, Awsi is responsible for some of my all time favorite posts on FH. If the board lost his contributions, that loss would be significant. The board is better off having as many well-backed opinions and vantage points as possible.
 
The hate toward CK is pretty simple, imo. One word. Jealousy.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Or, in this case, hell has no fury like a pack of women scorned -- and they got nothing in return.

Except empty drama.

LD

I think it has to do more with certain posters getting extremely defensive when he's critical of the team. Let's face it, when he posts something supportive no one really ever has an issue with him. When he's critical, many people act the same way they would act if any other media member was critical of the team. They first try to discredit the source(in cks case it's "he's just a fan and his opinion means no more than that), than they'll either attack it or simply dismiss it. If ck makes a post that critiques a member of the team or front office, many posters attack it the same way if florio posted the same exact thing. The only difference is that ck can actually respond to it and therefore it usually escalates.
 
Jesus guys, can we get back on topic people??

Ireland sucks. The players he's brought in post-Parcells are not producing. /End thread
 
2013 1 3(3) Dolphins Dion Jordan OLB Oregon
Pick Note from Oakland
2013 2 22(54) Dolphins Jamar Taylor CB Boise State
Pick Note From Indianapolis
2013 3 15(77) Dolphins Dallas Thomas OG Tennessee
2013 3 31(93) Dolphins Will Davis CB Utah State
Pick Note from Green Bay via San Francisco
2013 4 7(104) Dolphins Jelani Jenkins OLB Florida
Pick Note from Cleveland
2013 4 9(106) Dolphins Dion Sims TE Michigan State
Pick Note from New Orleans via New York Jets
2013 5 31(164) Dolphins Mike Gillislee RB Florida
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2013 5 33(166) Dolphins Caleb Sturgis PK Florida
Pick Note Compensatory Selection
2013 7 44(250) Dolphins Don Jones S Arkansas State
Pick Note Compensatory Selection
2012 1 8(8) Dolphins Ryan Tannehill QB Texas A&M
2012 2 10(42) Dolphins Jonathan Martin OT Stanford
2012 3 9(72) Dolphins Olivier Vernon DE Miami (FL)
2012 3 15(78) Dolphins Michael Egnew TE Missouri
Pick Note from San Diego
2012 4 2(97) Dolphins Lamar Miller RB Miami (FL)
Pick Note from Indianapolis through San Francisco
2012 5 20(155) Dolphins Josh Kaddu OLB Oregon
Pick Note From Tennessee
2012 6 13(183) Dolphins B.J. Cunningham WR Michigan State
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2012 7 8(215) Dolphins Kheeston Randall DT Texas
2012 7 20(227) Dolphins Rishard Matthews WR Nevada
Pick Note from Tennessee
2011 1 15(15) Dolphins Mike Pouncey C Florida
2011 2 30(62) Dolphins Daniel Thomas RB Kansas State
Pick Note from Chicago through Washington
2011 4 14(111) Dolphins Edmond Gates WR Abilene Christian
2011 6 9(174) Dolphins Charles Clay FB Tulsa
Pick Note from San Fransico through Green Bay
2011 7 28(231) Dolphins Frank Kearse DT Alabama A&M
Pick Note from NY Jets through Detroit and San Francisco and Green Bay
2011 7 32(235) Dolphins Jimmy Wilson DB Montana
Pick Note Compensatory

IDK, these are the drafts Ireland has been in charge of and the list that are playing and contributing ain't that bad. The first 5 picks in the 2012 draft are players that are contributing(J Martin is no longer with us of course) and doing it very well this year(besides what martin was doing). And yes, Jimmy Wilson is a very good player.........for a guy drafted in the 7th round. Keep it in perspective. Irelands drafts have not been that bad and definitely not as horrible as some of you are acting like they were.
Look, I've been an Ireland guy. Not because I think he is a good or bad GM but, because he is OUR GM. Loyalty to your team is lost on a lot of you but, you claim to be fans. And don't give me the blind eye bs or I like cheering for a loser either. I talk ish about my team as much as the next man but, there is a way to do it, still sound like you are a fan of the team and get your point across. A lot of you would rather lose than win with Ireland as our GM. That just shows YOUR feelings are more important to you than the team you claim to cheer for.
That being said, it might be time to make a change. This Incognito story is too much. The only thing that can save EVERYONE'S job is to win. If we make a run to finish the season everyone will be back next year and Ireland's drafts will be looking that much better. NOW, let me see how many of you would actually rather lose, than have Ireland back.lol.
 
Yeah i posted this yesterday... little bit lower. Turned into a CK love/hate thread.
 
I think it has to do more with certain posters getting extremely defensive when he's critical of the team. Let's face it, when he posts something supportive no one really ever has an issue with him. When he's critical, many people act the same way they would act if any other media member was critical of the team. They first try to discredit the source(in cks case it's "he's just a fan and his opinion means no more than that), than they'll either attack it or simply dismiss it. If ck makes a post that critiques a member of the team or front office, many posters attack it the same way if florio posted the same exact thing. The only difference is that ck can actually respond to it and therefore it usually escalates.

The point is that CK is never critical to the team without WORK being put in. He has countless hours of work researching position play -- specifically relative to the position that he's criticizing. Which makes him always worth reading even if what he's saying isn't comfortable. And it's funny that people lash out -- because how often has what CK said been 1. Glaringly true, or 2. Proven true over time?

A wise person (or group of posters) would wise up and say, "Hmm... maybe I have something to learn here?" Maybe this 4-4 record isn't an accident? Maybe CK laid all this down in black and white, which I could have drawn helpful inferences from, if I had been smart?

I get what you're saying, Bagpipe, but I'd much rather have informed condescension than uninformed criticism. Personally, it's really easy to be condescending whenever the people who attack you can't even grasp 1. The work you put in, nor 2. Your basic points. And worse, 3. When the points you make prove irrevocably true before their very eyes, they still can't see or admit reality.

CK adds so much to this board. And line up the people who knee-jerk attack him -- what do they add? Except crabs in a bucket mentality?

LD
 
CK may or may not be right but due to the long-deserved reputation of the publication with which he's associated,his overt hostility in reacting to that being pointed out, and general snarky, dismissive reactions to having some of his suppositions and conclusions challenged, especially when there's an agenda involved, he's taken a credibility hit around these here parts.
 
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