iceblizzard69
☠️ Banned ☠️
Fiedler did overthrow him against Indy which resulted in a pick, but yesterday a lot of balls were just dropped. It was Fiedler's worst game of the season, but I don't care because we won and he wasn't even bad!
Gadsden???????????
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SuavePhin
Resident Montana Griz pimp for Miami :)
IF anyone noticed OG's one handed catch was #1 on ESPN'S top 10 plays, and FYI Ricky's 53 yard TD run was #3 
dirtywhiteboy
the future
the only reason og had to catch that ball like that was he slowed up on his route, that was a very dangerous play.
on the other hand, i can't beleive some people are actually talking about getting rid of one of our most clutch players! should we get rid of mare too?
on to jay...i am not a basher, but sometimes his receivers need to be! soflafan is totally on the money about him throwing too high and stretching his receivers out a lot! this is VERY dangerous! if i were og and cc, i would come back to the huddle and let jay know how my foot would be inserted in his a$$ unless he gets them down! no one can take too many of those shots!
on the other hand, i can't beleive some people are actually talking about getting rid of one of our most clutch players! should we get rid of mare too?
on to jay...i am not a basher, but sometimes his receivers need to be! soflafan is totally on the money about him throwing too high and stretching his receivers out a lot! this is VERY dangerous! if i were og and cc, i would come back to the huddle and let jay know how my foot would be inserted in his a$$ unless he gets them down! no one can take too many of those shots!
Sherif
Pro Bowler
Thats a good point. Seems like its partly the route running as well. Seems like Randy McMichael is getting the ball right in stride and the rest mostly have to get their timing right with Fied.
shane13
Practice Squad
I think everyone should cut OG a little slack. The guy drops two balls that don't really hurt us, and suddenly people are calling for McKnight, who is INFAMOUS for dropping balls, including one against the Ravens in the playoffs that hurt our chances dramatically. OG is solid. And, I disagree that we won't resign him. He will be resigned. Period.
PhinPhan1227
Why is there a watermelon there?
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That's partly by design. When your WR is 8 inches taller than the CB, you throw the ball where only he can get it. It's not going to work every time, but unless you miss the Safety, it should keep you from getting the ball Intercepted.
Phinnish
Practice Squad
Anyone notice that ball was about a foot from going into a Jets defenders numbers? Even if he hadn't caught it , it would have been a spectacular play on his part.
Part of me wonders after watching it over and over if he was intending just to knock the ball down, and suddenly found the handle.
Part of me wonders after watching it over and over if he was intending just to knock the ball down, and suddenly found the handle.
Anyone notice that Jay GOT HIT on the play?? He had to move up in the pocket to escape pressure and couldn't follow thru on the throw because Todd Perry dove in front of him to block a charging Mo Lewis. Jay ended up on the ground as he attempted to follow thru.
That had A LOT to do with the placement of the throw. And as someone else pointed out, Oronde momentarily stopped running his route on the inside break. Even though he got hit, Jay's throw would have been right on target if OG had not stopped running his route.
That had A LOT to do with the placement of the throw. And as someone else pointed out, Oronde momentarily stopped running his route on the inside break. Even though he got hit, Jay's throw would have been right on target if OG had not stopped running his route.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
CBS Sportsline counted 4 drops.
And this is what I'm sayin. If we're gonna have guys droppin the ball I'd rather have guys that are going to get open in there. J-Mac just plain needs to get in that game. He may be the best WR we have at getting separation. Chris Chambers as of yet, has not impressed me a whole lot. And I'm starting to think that he's in for a sophomore slump. I know thats really harsh but the bottom line is he's somewhere in limbo where there's no way in heck that teams are going to let him go one-on-one deep anymore, and yet he's still not at any kind of pro bowl level in terms of his route-running or gaining separation by means of fakes, setting up your CB, and etc. The really good guys, like Ed McCaffrey says, put their own stamp on their route running. Also as the game wears on, they set up their CBs, use deception, etc. I don't think Chris is there yet. Even so he's still a great decoy if you let him run deep because you know he's gonna draw a safety. And if he doesn't, you know you can let it fly and he'll get it most of the time. We shouldn't feel too bad because as Robert Ford said, it takes 4 years to make a really good WR, bottom line. Yet still, Chambers is our best WR.
But as for Gadsden he's doing less than an impressive job to me. Sure, he's making incredible catches as he always does. Sure, he's only dropped two balls which isn't many (then again JM's total from last year was I believe only like 5-7 dropped balls, just in crucial situations, so OG is well on his way). But the main thing to me is he's not getting enough separation and this is not turning out to be the same Norv Turner offense that I came to know and love in both Dallas and Washington.
Look at it this way. Chris Chambers is averaging 11.5 ypc, and OG is averaging 11.0 ypc. I know its only been 3 games but this is not NEAR where they should both be. Norv himself will tell you that both of those numbers, for his starting WRs, should be around 15 to 17 yards per catch. Randy McMichael, the TE, who is probably the one that is supposed to be averaging 11 ypc, is the one averaging 17 ypc. Fortunately for us, our OL has turned into a demon of a run blocking machine, and Ricky Williams is everything we hoped and then some, so this isn't mattering much because Ricky Williams is averaging an astounding 5.8 ypc. Unless you believe we've returned to 72 form, this obviously isn't going to hold up long.
So the real question to me is, when teams start stacking up against the run, are the combo of OG and CC going to be enough to carry us through games and get us back on track to the offense we want to be running?
Personally I don't think so, so I think McKnight should start seeing a lot more playing time in relief of OG, and not just sparingly as a decoy either. If Chris Chambers is every bit of Michael Irvin or Michael Westbrook (remains to be seen) then Oronde Gadsden is the farthest thing from Alvin Harper or Albert Connell. That status belongs rather to James McKnight.
And this is what I'm sayin. If we're gonna have guys droppin the ball I'd rather have guys that are going to get open in there. J-Mac just plain needs to get in that game. He may be the best WR we have at getting separation. Chris Chambers as of yet, has not impressed me a whole lot. And I'm starting to think that he's in for a sophomore slump. I know thats really harsh but the bottom line is he's somewhere in limbo where there's no way in heck that teams are going to let him go one-on-one deep anymore, and yet he's still not at any kind of pro bowl level in terms of his route-running or gaining separation by means of fakes, setting up your CB, and etc. The really good guys, like Ed McCaffrey says, put their own stamp on their route running. Also as the game wears on, they set up their CBs, use deception, etc. I don't think Chris is there yet. Even so he's still a great decoy if you let him run deep because you know he's gonna draw a safety. And if he doesn't, you know you can let it fly and he'll get it most of the time. We shouldn't feel too bad because as Robert Ford said, it takes 4 years to make a really good WR, bottom line. Yet still, Chambers is our best WR.
But as for Gadsden he's doing less than an impressive job to me. Sure, he's making incredible catches as he always does. Sure, he's only dropped two balls which isn't many (then again JM's total from last year was I believe only like 5-7 dropped balls, just in crucial situations, so OG is well on his way). But the main thing to me is he's not getting enough separation and this is not turning out to be the same Norv Turner offense that I came to know and love in both Dallas and Washington.
Look at it this way. Chris Chambers is averaging 11.5 ypc, and OG is averaging 11.0 ypc. I know its only been 3 games but this is not NEAR where they should both be. Norv himself will tell you that both of those numbers, for his starting WRs, should be around 15 to 17 yards per catch. Randy McMichael, the TE, who is probably the one that is supposed to be averaging 11 ypc, is the one averaging 17 ypc. Fortunately for us, our OL has turned into a demon of a run blocking machine, and Ricky Williams is everything we hoped and then some, so this isn't mattering much because Ricky Williams is averaging an astounding 5.8 ypc. Unless you believe we've returned to 72 form, this obviously isn't going to hold up long.
So the real question to me is, when teams start stacking up against the run, are the combo of OG and CC going to be enough to carry us through games and get us back on track to the offense we want to be running?
Personally I don't think so, so I think McKnight should start seeing a lot more playing time in relief of OG, and not just sparingly as a decoy either. If Chris Chambers is every bit of Michael Irvin or Michael Westbrook (remains to be seen) then Oronde Gadsden is the farthest thing from Alvin Harper or Albert Connell. That status belongs rather to James McKnight.
iceblizzard69
☠️ Banned ☠️
In the first three games, I remember that there were two times when Chambers was wide open deep downfield but Jay overthrew him. They were worth the chance, and were both identical. If they work on it more in practice, there will be a lot of big plays by Chambers this year.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Especially when teams start gearing their defense more toward stopping Ricky Williams and Randy McMichael. In 3 games we've shown that we can score a good amount of points by handing off the ball to Ricky and throwing it to Randy over the linebackers. The first 3 teams didn't think we could do that. They played Cover 2, with the safeties helping on the outside. Its a natural assumption because if you look at how you were able to completely phuck us up last year, it was playing Cover 2 and doubling up on our WRs. Jay was terrible against those defenses. And Lamar wasn't about to get goin either.
I'm not sure what we'll face against the Chiefs, but I know what we'll face against the Patriots. We're going to see zone blitzing, a few more 8 man fronts, and a safety keeping an eye on Randy McMichael over the top. They're not good at stopping the run but they will throw whatever they can into doing just that, and they'll be blitzing Jay hardcore, and we're going to have to beat their secondary through the air.
I'm not sure what we'll face against the Chiefs, but I know what we'll face against the Patriots. We're going to see zone blitzing, a few more 8 man fronts, and a safety keeping an eye on Randy McMichael over the top. They're not good at stopping the run but they will throw whatever they can into doing just that, and they'll be blitzing Jay hardcore, and we're going to have to beat their secondary through the air.
I see seperation. I also see deep passes being dropped. Oronde dropped the same pass yesterday that he did last week. Same route. Same time (first drive).
While you'd like to see more from our WRs, I'm not panicking in the least. Our WRs haven't all of the sudden forgotten how to run routes or get open. And Jay Fiedler hasn't suddenly lost what deep accuracy he had. These are things that will come back to us. It doesn't matter if we're struggling or just not emphasizing the deep game. We've proven that we can play deep in the past.
Remember, this is a new offense. We're still not "there" yet. The running game is clicking. And we have yet to trail this season. So we haven't had to take a lot of chances deep. Plus, we have so many more options on offense this year. There are so many avenues for success than just throwing deep.
With that said, I expect James McKnight's role to increase in the next few weeks. I see Norv Turner exploring the deep passing game more.
While you'd like to see more from our WRs, I'm not panicking in the least. Our WRs haven't all of the sudden forgotten how to run routes or get open. And Jay Fiedler hasn't suddenly lost what deep accuracy he had. These are things that will come back to us. It doesn't matter if we're struggling or just not emphasizing the deep game. We've proven that we can play deep in the past.
Remember, this is a new offense. We're still not "there" yet. The running game is clicking. And we have yet to trail this season. So we haven't had to take a lot of chances deep. Plus, we have so many more options on offense this year. There are so many avenues for success than just throwing deep.
With that said, I expect James McKnight's role to increase in the next few weeks. I see Norv Turner exploring the deep passing game more.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I certainly haven't seen a whole lot of separation from our WRs. And another disturbing thing that I'm not seeing is any yardage after the catch. Chris Chambers is averaging 2.7 yac/r while OG is averaging 2.2 yac/r.
Compare this with Mike Westbrook who is not exactly a YAC kinda guy, but who got 5.2 yac/r in 1999 when Norv had his offense clicking the right way. In the years before that he had 4.8 yac/r and 4.2 yac/r still in Norv's offense. Like I said, Mike Westbrook isn't even that kinda receiver. I mean, this isn't the the West Coast Offense and I'm not asking our guys to average the 7.9 yac/r that Donte Stallworth is or even the 5.8 yac/r that Joe Horn is, but still...something better than 2.2 and 2.7 might be a little bit in order. To me its a sign that our WRs are not being hit in stride, or they are not getting separation, or a little of both (which is what I feel). If they are getting separation there's not much reason why the YAC/R should be so low IMO...
Compare this with Mike Westbrook who is not exactly a YAC kinda guy, but who got 5.2 yac/r in 1999 when Norv had his offense clicking the right way. In the years before that he had 4.8 yac/r and 4.2 yac/r still in Norv's offense. Like I said, Mike Westbrook isn't even that kinda receiver. I mean, this isn't the the West Coast Offense and I'm not asking our guys to average the 7.9 yac/r that Donte Stallworth is or even the 5.8 yac/r that Joe Horn is, but still...something better than 2.2 and 2.7 might be a little bit in order. To me its a sign that our WRs are not being hit in stride, or they are not getting separation, or a little of both (which is what I feel). If they are getting separation there's not much reason why the YAC/R should be so low IMO...
RunRickyRun34
Practice Squad
At the Game vs. the jets he made that great one handed catch up the middle and he made a fabalous catch on the sidelines where he tipped it to himself and caught it on the way down but couldnt drag one of his feet to stay in bounds. But on the other hand, on a 3rd down we needed to convert he let a pass sail right between his hands.