Gates no lock to make team? | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Gates no lock to make team?

I like -
Hartline, Bess
Fuller - he has Tannehill and Sherman in his corner - a projected 1st -2nd rnd pick -
Gates as the 4th -

then keep Fasano - Agnew - CLay and the other TE -
Also RB -
Bush -thomas - miller - Slaton and the FB from the CFL -
theyh might keep only 4 active an run 4 RB - 3 TE and use them in the slot an outta the back field -
could keep the play calling intresting --
 
J Tes said:
So again, all you see is supposed potential but hypothetically, if they're in a postition to consider releasing him at the end of training camp, it's because he hasn't put his speed and "short area quickness" to use. So you've already decided that he's too valuable to lose and already has a roster spot locked up even though in this hypothetical situation, he was out produced but younger players? That nonsense. Make the guy earn it. To say he has a spot locked up based on potential is ridiculous.
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i didn't say he had a spot locked up...i expect him to make this roster though...i hope he does...he's got talent and upside that frankly minus maybe mathews isn't there in this wr core...so i wouldn't give up on him yet off what i've seen...he's gonna have to show he belongs in camp though...but all things being equal if its close b/t him and say cunningham or moore or wallace i'm going with the upside play...all day every day...

gates has more to work with than roberto wallace who can't separate or despite that massive size get off the jam...marlon moores way too inconsistent in a lot of ways...cunningham remains to be seen in camp
 
J Tes said:
So again, all you see is supposed potential but hypothetically, if they're in a postition to consider releasing him at the end of training camp, it's because he hasn't put his speed and "short area quickness" to use. So you've already decided that he's too valuable to lose and already has a roster spot locked up even though in this hypothetical situation, he was out produced but younger players? That nonsense. Make the guy earn it. To say he has a spot locked up based on potential is ridiculous.
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Miles Austin's first three years in Dallas:

2006: 0 catches, 0 yards, 0 TDs. 29 KR for 753 yards. 3 fumbles.
2007: 5 catches, 76 yards, 0 TDs. 24 KR for 612 yards. 0 fumbles.
2008: 13 catches, 278 yards, 3 TDs. 29 KR for 624 yards. 1 fumble. Missed four games with injury.

You don't think there were better pure wide receivers than Austin in camp those three years?

Look, there's lots of different kinds of backups. Some are guys you have in case they need to come into the game and give you quality snaps. But some spaces are reserved for players with elite ability but who are raw, just as Austin was when he came out of Monmouth. Your "hypothetical" where you assume Gates comes into camp and doesn't show speed and quickness is fairly well useless. Gates has certain physical attributes and those aren't going to change, anymore than Ryan Tannehill is going to come into camp as an unathletic dumbass who can't hit the broad side of a barn.

People always seem to view rookies as empty vessels for their hopes and dreams where they're as raw and unpolished as anyone, especially when they're sixth and seventh round picks or even UDFAs. If you cut Gates for Matthews or Cunningham all you're doing is cutting one kind of potential for another.

Gates would have to be pretty goddamn awful for me to cut him. He'd have to have shown no work ethic, no classroom smarts, a bad attitude and bad play on the field. He'd have to be bad enough that if it was Hartline or Bess or anyone on the team who performed in such a manner -- no matter their salary -- you'd still cut him, just on general principle.
 
TheWalrus said:
Miles Austin's first three years in Dallas:

2006: 0 catches, 0 yards, 0 TDs. 29 KR for 753 yards. 3 fumbles.
2007: 5 catches, 76 yards, 0 TDs. 24 KR for 612 yards. 0 fumbles.
2008: 13 catches, 278 yards, 3 TDs. 29 KR for 624 yards. 1 fumble. Missed four games with injury.

You don't think there were better pure wide receivers than Austin in camp those three years?

Look, there's lots of different kinds of backups. Some are guys you have in case they need to come into the game and give you quality snaps. But some spaces are reserved for players with elite ability but who are raw, just as Austin was when he came out of Monmouth. Your "hypothetical" where you assume Gates comes into camp and doesn't show speed and quickness is fairly well useless. Gates has certain physical attributes and those aren't going to change, anymore than Ryan Tannehill is going to come into camp as an unathletic dumbass who can't hit the broad side of a barn.

People always seem to view rookies as empty vessels for their hopes and dreams where they're as raw and unpolished as anyone, especially when they're sixth and seventh round picks or even UDFAs. If you cut Gates for Matthews or Cunningham all you're doing is cutting one kind of potential for another.

Gates would have to be pretty goddamn awful for me to cut him. He'd have to have shown no work ethic, no classroom smarts, a bad attitude and bad play on the field. He'd have to be bad enough that if it was Hartline or Bess or anyone on the team who performed in such a manner -- no matter their salary -- you'd still cut him, just on general principle.
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I never once brought up Gates's stats so i'm not sure why you're coming back to me with Austins. There's an exception to every rule.

Besides that, i'm not trying to bash Gates. I just want to know why the hell we are already handing the guy a spot on the roster?? My point is that he should earn it. I couldn't care less how fast he runs. How quick he is off the snap. How much he can bench press etc (combine crap). I want football players. No one is talking about cutting him today. This is a hypothetical situation after camp and preseason. At that point if Miami is considering cutting ties with him he must have had a pretty bad go of it. You mean to tell me that at that point, Gates should keep his spot on the team even though he didn't show much or was out-preformed by someone else? That makes absolutely no sense. Give me football players, not a bunch of guys with "potential"
 
hooshoops said:
i didn't say he had a spot locked up...i expect him to make this roster though...i hope he does...he's got talent and upside that frankly minus maybe mathews isn't there in this wr core...so i wouldn't give up on him yet off what i've seen...he's gonna have to show he belongs in camp though...but all things being equal if its close b/t him and say cunningham or moore or wallace i'm going with the upside play...all day every day...

gates has more to work with than roberto wallace who can't separate or despite that massive size get off the jam...marlon moores way too inconsistent in a lot of ways...cunningham remains to be seen in camp
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Okay. Expecting him to make the team and already giving him a roster spot are 2 very different things.

Again, i'm not trying to bash Gates. I hope he puts it all together and makes the team because he has a skill set that no one else on the roster has. I just want him to earn it and if you read back through this thread many have already handed him the spot based on "potential". That to me is nonsense
 
as a football team you are always building for the present and for the future. if the coaching staff sees potential in a player, there should be room on the roster (not the practice squad) to develop them over time. the miles austin example is a good one. some players you draft knowing they are raw and need time to develop (small school, late to football, etc.). why draft any unpolished player that needs a couple of years of seasoning if you are going to cut them at the start of year two? that makes no sense. if there are other issues (bad attitude, lazy, bad work ethic, etc.), that is a different story. if the player is a hard working, learning, and trying to get better, i would rather keep them as a 5th or 6th receiver over a 5th or 6th receiver that can play now but has reached their ceiling. you have to reserve a few roster spots for players like these in order to hit some home runs, not just singles. to me number 44-48 of the roster should be the hard working, ready to go, limited talent guys of the world, and 49-53 (or thereabouts) of the roster should be the hard working, not ready to go, huge potential guys of the world.
 
Meh, I don't think any of the receivers are a lock to make the team. New year, new system, new coaches. This year everyone has a cclean slate and full off season. We have something like 9-10 receivers competing for 5-6 spots. It's safe to say that half these guys don't make the team. That's how it should be.
 
I would expect the WR depth chart to look something like this:
1. Hartline
2. Naanee
3. Bess
4. Gates
5. Cunningham
(if we carry 6). Matthews/Fuller
 
beanh8er said:
To add to this. He was thrown to 15 times and 13 of them were uncatchable.
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I was just going to mention that. And he caught the two that were catchable.

Plus for me the big thing is that Gates like fellow rookies Thomas and Clay had nagging injuries from training camp.

The other two factors working against him last year was our poor OL which made it hard for our QBs to stay in the pocket and throw long and the fact that B Marshall sucked all the extra passes/plays from coming to him. He was also never used in a WR screen, reverse etc.
 
TheWalrus said:
Miles Austin's first three years in Dallas:

2006: 0 catches, 0 yards, 0 TDs. 29 KR for 753 yards. 3 fumbles.
2007: 5 catches, 76 yards, 0 TDs. 24 KR for 612 yards. 0 fumbles.
2008: 13 catches, 278 yards, 3 TDs. 29 KR for 624 yards. 1 fumble. Missed four games with injury.

You don't think there were better pure wide receivers than Austin in camp those three years?

Look, there's lots of different kinds of backups. Some are guys you have in case they need to come into the game and give you quality snaps. But some spaces are reserved for players with elite ability but who are raw, just as Austin was when he came out of Monmouth. Your "hypothetical" where you assume Gates comes into camp and doesn't show speed and quickness is fairly well useless. Gates has certain physical attributes and those aren't going to change, anymore than Ryan Tannehill is going to come into camp as an unathletic dumbass who can't hit the broad side of a barn.

People always seem to view rookies as empty vessels for their hopes and dreams where they're as raw and unpolished as anyone, especially when they're sixth and seventh round picks or even UDFAs. If you cut Gates for Matthews or Cunningham all you're doing is cutting one kind of potential for another.

Gates would have to be pretty goddamn awful for me to cut him. He'd have to have shown no work ethic, no classroom smarts, a bad attitude and bad play on the field. He'd have to be bad enough that if it was Hartline or Bess or anyone on the team who performed in such a manner -- no matter their salary -- you'd still cut him, just on general principle.
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The Statwhoring Walrus strikes again!! Its by no means an insult, I'm growing to like your posts ^^b

There are always exceptions to the rule, Gates most definately has potential its just a matter of the coaching staff believing in it, and deeming it worthy of the teams money and time.
 
PyroDOLFAN said:
The Statwhoring Walrus strikes again!! Its by no means an insult, I'm growing to like your posts ^^b

There are always exceptions to the rule, Gates most definately has potential its just a matter of the coaching staff believing in it, and deeming it worthy of the teams money and time.
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Actually, the point on Austin was exactly that the stats don't matter. That for three years he produced pretty much nothing yet the Cowboys still stashed him on their roster because they had an idea of what he could become.

It's just a presumption, of course. I don't follow the Cowboys so I don't know what their receiver situation was (though I think the Hard Knocks season -- which was 2008, I think -- Austin was actually injured to start the year, which makes the fact that he made the roster after not producing very much up to that point even more impressive). J Tes' point... that you don't guarantee roster spots to potential, does not seem well considered, to me. Where he's right he's being obvious -- everyone in theory has to earn their spot on the roster, from the star quarterback on down. That's a basic principle of sports.

But where he's wrong I think is on this point. Let's say the last WR spot comes down to Gates... or Legadu Naanee. Let's assume that as a team you feel like you're probably going to get more out of Naanee this year. He's the veteran. He's more polished and knows the game better. Which one do you keep?

Even if you throw out the economics of the thing, to me the decision is simple. You keep the guy who might turn out to be a starting caliber receiver one day (assuming you believe he has that potential), not the guy who's already shown he's nothing more than a spot player.
 
Bess, Hartline, amd gates are pretty secure. the other 3 spots up for grabs. I think Mathews will earn one.
 
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