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Gates no lock to make team?

Gates was a track star blowing past wildly overmatched athletes in college. He played at such a ridiculously low level of competition. The speed is great and all, but he had nothing else going for him. Every WR pick we took this year in lower rounds made more sense than Gates. I see such a divide between last year's and this year's draft. It's almost unbelievable.
 
bess15 said:
Says the palm beach post....no way they give up on him after just one year....Right?
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OP ... go to the top of the Forum in the green-stickies & dload the Depth Chart.

You will see Gates & other similar players on it .... then figure out who we'll keep on the 53-man Roster. Really tough!! ... and don't forget Long-Snapper, Wedge, & other important positions.

Reality 101: A guy with "potential" like Gates ... has to rise quickly to stick ... or better yet, have secondary reasons (i.e. Special Teams or a couple positions) to stick while you're trying to climb the depth chart.

And many times with "potential" ... you just don't get the attention & snaps you need to develop ... they go to proven players we need to improve ASAP to WIN NOW!!

"Potential" guys are runnin' with the scrubs trying to catch coach's eye or get a break if someone goes down. If YOU'RE hurt ... probably out of football ... there's someone else with "potential" to take your roster spot!!
 
Considering the coaching staff and type of offense, I think it is a foregone conclusion that the Dolphins will keep six WR's on the active roster.

The newly acquired rookies and Holman will all be PS eligible. Gates,Wallace,and Moore won't be, and none of them are getting paid anything. They have a big leg up on Matthews,BJ, and Fuller. Pruitt ??

I think if everyone stays healthy the only tough question will be between BJ and Matthews because I doubt if either one will make it to the practice squad without being picked up by another team.

I'd give it to Matthews because he is a better athlete and has significant special teams value. BJ is slow and is not a returner or a coverage guy.
 
Just to remind people and to remember myself I Googled something about C Gates(interestingly a post of mine was the first under search) a few minutes ago. This is a thread I started on the Scout.com site last season.

(after spraining my wrist trying to pat myself on the back I decided to reprint it in my ongoing mission to prove to myself that I'm clever)


http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=62&f=1843&t=7740440


I had no idea that C Gates replaced Johnny Knox.

DAVIE — Dolphins fans couldn't wait to run Ted Ginn Jr. out of town. But it didn't take long before they realized what they had lost. Last season, without the home-run threat Ginn provided, Miami finished 29th in touchdown passes (17) and completions over 40 yards (four).



Enter Clyde Gates of Abilene Christian. At the NFL Scouting Combine six months ago, he was nursing a groin injury but still ran a 4.37 in the 40-yard dash, tied for fastest among receivers. That helped persuade Dolphins General Manager Jeff Ireland, an Abilene native, to draft Gates in the fourth round.


Gates (5-foot-11 and 197 pounds) is a relative newcomer to football. He initially dedicated himself to basketball and didn't play high school football in his hometown of Vernon, Texas. Only after he had been told by two college basketball coaches that they didn't have a spot for him did he decide to give football a chance.

His cousin, Cincinnati Bengals punt returner/running back Bernard Scott, persuaded him to ask Abilene Christian coach Chris Thomsen for a tryout.


Gates had a pretty good role model at ACU. Johnny Knox, who made the Pro Bowl as a Chicago Bears rookie in 2009, was the Wildcats' go-to receiver during Gates' first two years. When Knox left, Gates stepped up. Last season he averaged 17.9 yards per catch.

"He's the best pro prospect I've had in my seven years here," Thomsen said of the Division II school. "He's a little bigger than Johnny and jumps a little better. I would say his ceiling as a player is a little bit higher. He really developed for us last year."

P.S Last season the player that caught the most passes with the Bears was RB Matt Forte in what is considered a down year for Jay Cutler and the Bears in the passing game. Johnny Knox and Roy Williams tied for 2nd place with 37 receptions. Knox had a average of 19.6 yards per catch (YPC).

P.S.S All I'm am saying, is give Gates a chance.................(ugh, trying to be clever again)

:420:
 
LikeUntoGod said:
You mean like QB Ryan Tannehill, RT J Martin, DE Olivier Vernon, TE Michael Egnew, RB Lamar Miller etc?
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Really? You're honestly trying to compare a QB just picked at #8 to a receiver that was picked last year in the 4th round from a college that is barely above highschool level?
 
TheWalrus said:
Actually, the point on Austin was exactly that the stats don't matter. That for three years he produced pretty much nothing yet the Cowboys still stashed him on their roster because they had an idea of what he could become.

It's just a presumption, of course. I don't follow the Cowboys so I don't know what their receiver situation was (though I think the Hard Knocks season -- which was 2008, I think -- Austin was actually injured to start the year, which makes the fact that he made the roster after not producing very much up to that point even more impressive). J Tes' point... that you don't guarantee roster spots to potential, does not seem well considered, to me. Where he's right he's being obvious -- everyone in theory has to earn their spot on the roster, from the star quarterback on down. That's a basic principle of sports.

But where he's wrong I think is on this point. Let's say the last WR spot comes down to Gates... or Legadu Naanee. Let's assume that as a team you feel like you're probably going to get more out of Naanee this year. He's the veteran. He's more polished and knows the game better. Which one do you keep?

Even if you throw out the economics of the thing, to me the decision is simple. You keep the guy who might turn out to be a starting caliber receiver one day (assuming you believe he has that potential), not the guy who's already shown he's nothing more than a spot player.
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The difference is that Gates didn't show much as a reciever last season. He doesn't run routes well at all, doesn't seem to be able to track the ball while it's in the air and doesn't seem to have the strongest hands.

I guess the point i'm trying to make is that if Miami is put in the position of not keeping Gates come cut day, it's because he put them in that position and still hadn't tapped this supposed "potential". During training camp if he has a horrible case of the drops, continues to run poor routes, why would you keep him? Especially if someone like Mathews, Fuller and/or Cunningham are grasping the offense and excelling in it. Why hand Gates a roster spot? Make him earn it. If you want to keep a guy like Gates over a bum like Naanee thats fine but to say in May that Gates has a spot already locked down is foolish. Make him improve and tap into this "potential"
 
J Tes said:
Really? You're honestly trying to compare a QB just picked at #8 to a receiver that was picked last year in the 4th round from a college that is barely above highschool level?
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I'm not comparing them, just saying that they are on the team because of the players that we think they will be.
 
J Tes said:
The difference is that Gates didn't show much as a reciever last season. He doesn't run routes well at all, doesn't seem to be able to track the ball while it's in the air and doesn't seem to have the strongest hands.

I guess the point i'm trying to make is that if Miami is put in the position of not keeping Gates come cut day, it's because he put them in that position and still hadn't tapped this supposed "potential". During training camp if he has a horrible case of the drops, continues to run poor routes, why would you keep him? Especially if someone like Mathews, Fuller and/or Cunningham are grasping the offense and excelling in it. Why hand Gates a roster spot? Make him earn it. If you want to keep a guy like Gates over a bum like Naanee thats fine but to say in May that Gates has a spot already locked down is foolish. Make him improve and tap into this "potential"
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You really need to understand that he was injured last season.

As was D Thomas and C Clay. Thomas did not have a good season and Clay only had a few catches later in the season once he healed up some. But understanding that they played hurt and are young and they have "potential" we are keeping them on the team.

Thomas and Clay got touches that Gates never got because of the positions they play. We were 6th in the NFL so Thomas had a lot of carries backing up R Bush. We had to keep Fasano in to block to cover for Colombo and did not have another "pass catching TE"

Thomas had a very low rushing average of only 3.5 yards so do he cut him? Clay only caught 16 passes all season, do we cut him? Clay also dropped some passes.

Gates did not drop a pass, but only 2 of the 14-15 that were thrown to him were considered catchable passes. You cannot fault a player for not catching more passes when you always miss him by 5-6 yards. With our very poor (last in the NFL) pass protecting OL, our QBs trying to hit Gates long often had to throw the ball before they wanted to. And to be honest, I'm not sure they had a handle on his speed. Almost all the passes thrown to him were under thrown.

And since every ball thrown to him was a pass not thrown to B Marshall, C Gates did not get that many chances.
 
LikeUntoGod said:
Just to remind people and to remember myself I Googled something about C Gates(interestingly a post of mine was the first under search) a few minutes ago. This is a thread I started on the Scout.com site last season.

(after spraining my wrist trying to pat myself on the back I decided to reprint it in my ongoing mission to prove to myself that I'm clever)


http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=62&f=1843&t=7740440


I had no idea that C Gates replaced Johnny Knox.

DAVIE — Dolphins fans couldn't wait to run Ted Ginn Jr. out of town. But it didn't take long before they realized what they had lost. Last season, without the home-run threat Ginn provided, Miami finished 29th in touchdown passes (17) and completions over 40 yards (four).



Enter Clyde Gates of Abilene Christian. At the NFL Scouting Combine six months ago, he was nursing a groin injury but still ran a 4.37 in the 40-yard dash, tied for fastest among receivers. That helped persuade Dolphins General Manager Jeff Ireland, an Abilene native, to draft Gates in the fourth round.


Gates (5-foot-11 and 197 pounds) is a relative newcomer to football. He initially dedicated himself to basketball and didn't play high school football in his hometown of Vernon, Texas. Only after he had been told by two college basketball coaches that they didn't have a spot for him did he decide to give football a chance.

His cousin, Cincinnati Bengals punt returner/running back Bernard Scott, persuaded him to ask Abilene Christian coach Chris Thomsen for a tryout.


Gates had a pretty good role model at ACU. Johnny Knox, who made the Pro Bowl as a Chicago Bears rookie in 2009, was the Wildcats' go-to receiver during Gates' first two years. When Knox left, Gates stepped up. Last season he averaged 17.9 yards per catch.

"He's the best pro prospect I've had in my seven years here," Thomsen said of the Division II school. "He's a little bigger than Johnny and jumps a little better. I would say his ceiling as a player is a little bit higher. He really developed for us last year."

P.S Last season the player that caught the most passes with the Bears was RB Matt Forte in what is considered a down year for Jay Cutler and the Bears in the passing game. Johnny Knox and Roy Williams tied for 2nd place with 37 receptions. Knox had a average of 19.6 yards per catch (YPC).

P.S.S All I'm am saying, is give Gates a chance.................(ugh, trying to be clever again)

:420:
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Once again.

C Gates played last season with a groin injury.

Gates had a pretty good role model at ACU. Johnny Knox, who made the Pro Bowl as a Chicago Bears rookie in 2009, was the Wildcats' go-to receiver during Gates' first two years. When Knox left, Gates stepped up. Last season he averaged 17.9 yards on 66 catches for 1182 yards with 13 touchdowns in 12 games (they only played 12 games).

"He's the best pro prospect I've had in my seven years here," Abilene Christian coach Chris Thomsen said of the Division II school. "He's a little bigger than Johnny Knox and jumps a little better. I would say his ceiling as a player is a little bit higher. He really developed for us last year."


 
LikeUntoGod said:
"He's the best pro prospect I've had in my seven years here," Abilene Christian coach Chris Thomsen said of the Division II school. "He's a little bigger than Johnny Knox and jumps a little better. I would say his ceiling as a player is a little bit higher. He really developed for us last year."
Click to expand...

"He's the best pro prospect I've had in my seven years here," Abilene Christian coach Chris Thomsen said of the Division II school. "He's a little bigger than Johnny Knox and jumps a little better. I would say his ceiling as a player is a little bit higher. He really developed for us last year."

You should use BOLD to illustrate the important part of your statement. Ted Ginn had great reviews also and he played at a REAL school.
i wish gates well but it's SHOW ME time. No more excuses.
 
LikeUntoGod said:
You really need to understand that he was injured last season.

As was D Thomas and C Clay. Thomas did not have a good season and Clay only had a few catches later in the season once he healed up some. But understanding that they played hurt and are young and they have "potential" we are keeping them on the team.

Thomas and Clay got touches that Gates never got because of the positions they play. We were 6th in the NFL so Thomas had a lot of carries backing up R Bush. We had to keep Fasano in to block to cover for Colombo and did not have another "pass catching TE"

Thomas had a very low rushing average of only 3.5 yards so do he cut him? Clay only caught 16 passes all season, do we cut him? Clay also dropped some passes.

Gates did not drop a pass, but only 2 of the 14-15 that were thrown to him were considered catchable passes. You cannot fault a player for not catching more passes when you always miss him by 5-6 yards. With our very poor (last in the NFL) pass protecting OL, our QBs trying to hit Gates long often had to throw the ball before they wanted to. And to be honest, I'm not sure they had a handle on his speed. Almost all the passes thrown to him were under thrown.

And since every ball thrown to him was a pass not thrown to B Marshall, C Gates did not get that many chances.
Click to expand...

Miami's OL was very poor but if you're making that statement that they were "last in NFL" based on sacks allowed they actually allowed the third most.

Bolding random words to try and make a point doesn't prove anything. And great, Gates was injured last year so he gets a pass for it. The point you're missing is that cuts aren't today. They're in late August/early September. If Miami is considering cutting him then, then he didn't show very well during preseason and training camp. Then whats the excuse? He still then deserves a roster spot? He needs to earn his spot in July and August. Not be handed it in May
 
J Tes said:
The difference is that Gates didn't show much as a reciever last season. He doesn't run routes well at all, doesn't seem to be able to track the ball while it's in the air and doesn't seem to have the strongest hands.

I guess the point i'm trying to make is that if Miami is put in the position of not keeping Gates come cut day, it's because he put them in that position and still hadn't tapped this supposed "potential". During training camp if he has a horrible case of the drops, continues to run poor routes, why would you keep him? Especially if someone like Mathews, Fuller and/or Cunningham are grasping the offense and excelling in it. Why hand Gates a roster spot? Make him earn it. If you want to keep a guy like Gates over a bum like Naanee thats fine but to say in May that Gates has a spot already locked down is foolish. Make him improve and tap into this "potential"
Click to expand...

I couldn't disagree with this more strongly. These are two of Gates' strengths.

This concept of "earning" a roster spot isn't the sharply defined thing you're making it out to be. Your ceiling as a player matters, and can, in fact, "earn" you a spot on a roster. That was the point of bringing up a guy in Miles Austin who stuck around on Dallas' active roster for three years in Dallas despite being a raw player form Monmouth College who wasn't able to produce anything at first.
 
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