Gates no lock to make team? | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Gates no lock to make team?

this thread makes no sense. he didnt even see the field last year and he needs to be cut? I'd say wait for him to go through training camp and see who else can be cut before we dump any of our WRs. If him not getting on the field is due to injuries than even more reason to stick it out with him. IMO he's a speed/slot guy and I know this isn't going to be popular but I'd rather see us trade or cut bess than Gates unless gates is actuallty totally useless.
 
Dsteve said:
this thread makes no sense. he didnt even see the field last year and he needs to be cut? I'd say wait for him to go through training camp and see who else can be cut before we dump any of our WRs. If him not getting on the field is due to injuries than even more reason to stick it out with him. IMO he's a speed/slot guy and I know this isn't going to be popular but I'd rather see us trade or cut bess than Gates unless gates is actuallty totally useless.
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No one says he should be cut today. The question is if he has a roster spot already locked up before offseason training even begins.
 
fishfanmiami said:
"He's the best pro prospect I've had in my seven years here," Abilene Christian coach Chris Thomsen said of the Division II school. "He's a little bigger than Johnny Knox and jumps a little better. I would say his ceiling as a player is a little bit higher. He really developed for us last year."

You should use BOLD to illustrate the important part of your statement. Ted Ginn had great reviews also and he played at a REAL school.
i wish gates well but it's SHOW ME time. No more excuses.
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When did OSU become a real school ? As a college they were just there to hand the Gators National Championships(Football and Basketball in the same year) and for us to POOP ON!
 
J Tes said:
Miami's OL was very poor but if you're making that statement that they were "last in NFL" based on sacks allowed they actually allowed the third most.
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You are wrong again. This is a great example of fans not understanding stats so I will explain the higher math here.

First, the good news. You are right, the Dolphin gave up "only" the 3rd most sacks in the NFL with 52 and allowed 95 QB hits.

That is bad but what is worse is that we were only 28th in pass attempts per game. (we tied Jacksonville for 28th with only 29.3 pass attempts per game) So although we passed fewer times then almost every other team we gave up more almost more sacks then any other team. (do you notice how this is in bold so you will see it and hopefully understand?)


So by far, per pass attempt, we gave up a lot more sacks, QB hits and QB hurries then any other NFL team. (bold and big so you will really get it)

This is why on draft day i said that we HAD TO DRAFT the best RT on the board and we did in J Martin.


We were 6th in rushing attempts per team last season and interestingly that gave us a perfect 50/50 mixture of 29.3 rushing attempts and 29.3 passing attempts per game.


(and yea, I'm sorry for acting rude but come on bro)
 
LikeUntoGod said:
You are wrong again. This is a great example of fans not understanding stats so I will explain the higher math here.

First, the good news. You are right, the Dolphin gave up "only" the 3rd most sacks in the NFL with 52 and allowed 95 QB hits.

That is bad but what is worse is that we were only 28th in pass attempts per game. (we tied Jacksonville for 28th with only 29.3 pass attempts per game) So although we passed fewer times then almost every other team we gave up more almost more sacks then any other team. (do you notice how this is in bold so you will see it and hopefully understand?)


So by far, per pass attempt, we gave up a lot more sacks, QB hits and QB hurries then any other NFL team. (bold and big so you will really get it)

This is why on draft day i said that we HAD TO DRAFT the best RT on the board and we did in J Martin.


We were 6th in rushing attempts per team last season and interestingly that gave us a perfect 50/50 mixture of 29.3 rushing attempts and 29.3 passing attempts per game.


(and yea, I'm sorry for acting rude but come on bro)
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HA ha now I know what i'm dealing with. An insecure, internet tough guy. Nice attempt at patronizing.

So what exactly was I incorrect about? I asked you what you were basing your statement on and said that if you were basing it on sacks allowed you were wrong.
Which is 100% correct.

But again, nice attempt at patronizing. You failed but at least you tried
 
J Tes said:
HA ha now I know what i'm dealing with. An insecure, internet tough guy. Nice attempt at patronizing.

So what exactly was I incorrect about? I asked you what you were basing your statement on and said that if you were basing it on sacks allowed you were wrong.
Which is 100% correct.

But again, nice attempt at patronizing. You failed but at least you tried
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If you had anyone in your corner he would have already thrown in the towel.

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting.

And as you seem to be admitting, totally patronized. :rimshot:
 
Not sure how some could think this guy is a lock. He may have great speed, but in the WCO the most important thing is route running and timing - which was Gates' biggest flaw coming out of college. He was very raw coming out of college and I haven't seen anything from him that made me think he has improved in his routes. Look at the two WRs wer drafted on day 3, and you understand what kind of guys Philbin has asked Ireland to aquire, and they are nothing like Gates. I'm not knocking Gates as a player, but you definitely have to question how his skill sets fit in this type of offense. His ST retrun ability will certainly help.
 
People are to enamored with speed. There are a lot of guys that can run fast in a straight line. Gates didn't show a lot of promise doing the other things that make you a quality WR in the NFL.
Hopefully none of our receivers are a lock to make the team. None of them possess the kind of skill set that should guarantee employment in the NFL.
 
LikeUntoGod said:
If you had anyone in your corner he would have already thrown in the towel.

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting.

And as you seem to be admitting, totally patronized. :rimshot:
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Okay. I allowed you to bate me in. I’m in no way excusing or defending Miami’s poor line play last year. It was brutal but I was forced into proving you wrong.

You can skew stats however you like to try to prove your point but in the end your comment was based solely on your opinion.

Apparently, in your world, running the ball is only on the shoulders of the RB. The line gets none of the credit for Miami averaging 4.2 yards/attempt and ranking in a tie for 15th in the NFL.

We’ve already pointed out that Miami allowed the 3rd most sacks last season. Per pass attempt, they actually lead the league in sacks/attempt. If you would have stated initially that your OPINION was based on that fact, I would have left it alone even though there’s a lot more that goes into a subjective ranking/opinion of O-lines. You carried on trying to insult me when in return all you did was make yourself look foolish

So since we’re only basing this on passing, let’s look at it a little further. Lets look at QB hits since they lead to poor decisions, interceptions, incompletions etc. In this case Miami was also not the worst. Miami allowed 95 QB hits putting them 4th worst in the NFL. Again, a terrible number and indictment…but still not last. So since teams attempt different amounts of passes, let’s look at it based on QB hits/pass attempt. Seattle and STL tied for the most QB hits in the NFL with 114 (Miami 95). STL attempted 549 passes for a QB hit rate of 20.8%. Seattle attempted 509 passes for a rate of 22.4%. Miami only had 469 pass attempts and that lead to a QB hit rate of 20.3%. As you can see…still not last. Bad, very bad but not the worst.

“by far, per pass attempt, we gave up a lot more sacks, QB hits and QB hurries then any other NFL team. (bold and big so you will really get it)… Let’s look at your comment a little further since you provided no stats to back it up…Wonder why??

If you would like to combine sacks and QB hits we can. Seattle had a total of 164, the Rams 169 and Miami 147. Per pass attempt, Seattle allowed their QB to be hit or sacked 32.2 percent of the time. The Rams 30.8% and Miami 31.3%. Last I checked 32.2% is higher than 31.3. So not only was Miami not “by far” the worst, they weren’t the worst at all. If you’re going to try and pass along information as factual, you may want to provide proof. You didn’t and now it’s clear why…It’s not true.

Lets look at pressured drop backs. Since Matt Moore was the starter for most of the season I’ll use his stats. Moore dropped back and was pressured 128 times on 347 attempts for a rate of 36.8%. Cam Newton was pressured 208 times on 517 attempts for a rate of 40.2%. Eli Manning’s rate was 41.4%. I can keep going…

Since sacks are not always the fault of the O-line, some are the fault of the receivers not getting open, some are just the fault of the QB not finding the open receiver or just flat holding onto the ball too long. You should look up the stats for quick or fast sacks. These are sacks that are under 2.5 seconds. Typically they are the result of the lineman flat out getting beat, blowing assignments or a bad line call. That’s a much bigger indictment of how poor the line is at pass protection. Hint: Miami isn’t last in this category either.

I’ll leave you with this. 1- Miami’s line sucked last year. It looks to be improved but still could use some more help, especially at guard. 2- don’t be so insecure. I asked you a simple question as to what you were basing your opinion on and you decided that was the time for you to poorly attempt to insult me and you did so without any facts. Last but not least- Facts>>>>>>>>>>your opinion

Now what were you saying in this post?
 
J Tes said:
Okay. I allowed you to bate me in. I’m in no way excusing or defending Miami’s poor line play last year. It was brutal but I was forced into proving you wrong.

You can skew stats however you like to try to prove your point but in the end your comment was based solely on your opinion.

Apparently, in your world, running the ball is only on the shoulders of the RB. The line gets none of the credit for Miami averaging 4.2 yards/attempt and ranking in a tie for 15th in the NFL.

We’ve already pointed out that Miami allowed the 3rd most sacks last season. Per pass attempt, they actually lead the league in sacks/attempt. If you would have stated initially that your OPINION was based on that fact, I would have left it alone even though there’s a lot more that goes into a subjective ranking/opinion of O-lines. You carried on trying to insult me when in return all you did was make yourself look foolish

So since we’re only basing this on passing, let’s look at it a little further. QB hits are an even better stat to look at since these also lead to, poor decisions, interceptions, incompletions etc. In this case Miami was also not last. Miami allowed 95 QB hits putting them 4th worst in the NFL. Again, a terrible number and indictment…but still not last. So since teams attempt different amounts of passes, let’s look at it based on QB hits/pass attempt. Seattle and STL tied for the most QB hits in the NFL with 114 (Miami 95). STL attempted 549 passes for a QB hit rate of 20.8%. Seattle attempted 509 passes for a rate of 22.4%. Miami only had 469 pass attempts and that lead to a QB hit rate of 20.3%. As you can see…still not last. Bad, very bad but not the worst.

“by far, per pass attempt, we gave up a lot more sacks, QB hits and QB hurries then any other NFL team. (bold and big so you will really get it)… Let’s look at your comment a little further since you provided no stats to back it up…Wonder why??
If you would like to combine sacks and QB hits we can. Seattle had a total of 164, the Rams 169 and Miami 147. Per pass attempt, Seattle allowed their QB to be hit or sacked 32.2 percent of the time. The Rams 30.8% and Miami 31.3%. Last I checked 32.2% is higher than 31.3. So not only was Miami not “by far” the worst, they weren’t the worst at all. If you’re going to try and pass along information as factual, you may want to provide proof. You didn’t and now it’s clear why…It’s not true.

Lets look at pressured drop backs. Since Matt Moore was the starter for most of the season I’ll use his stats. Moore dropped back and was pressured 128 times on 347 attempts for a rate of 36.8%. Cam Newton was pressured 208 times on 517 attempts for a rate of 40.2%. Eli Manning’s rate was 41.4%. I can keep going…

Since sacks are not always the fault of the O-line, some are the fault of the receivers not getting open, some are just the fault of the QB not finding the open receiver or just flat holding onto the ball too long. You should look up the stats for quick or fast sacks. These are sacks that are under 2.5 seconds. Typically they are the result of the lineman flat out getting beat, blowing assignments or a bad line call. That’s a much bigger indictment of how poor the line is at pass protection. Hint: Miami isn’t last in this category either.

I’ll leave you with this. 1- Miami’s line sucked last year. It looks to be improved but still could use some more help, especially at guard. 2- don’t be so insecure. I asked you a simple question as to what you were basing your opinion on and you decided that was the time for you to poorly attempt to insult me and you did so without any facts. Last but not least- Facts>>>>>>>>>>your opinion

Now what were you saying in this post?
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I think you meant "bait".

You are really insecure, I do feel bad for explaining things to do in such a way. I've been in a lot of pain lately.

I do feel strongly that I have helped you however. It took you a couple of days but you looked up some stats and worked your calculator a little. I'm glad that you now realize that "per attempt" is a better way of looking at things then the general overall number. And I'm happy to see that you agree that our pass blocking was poor.

I'm not 100% sure what this has to do with C Gates, which is what this thread was about. And yes, our OL in the 2nd half of the season did run block well. Again, not sure what this has to do with C Gates only being thrown two catchable passes all of last season.

:tank:
 
LikeUntoGod said:
I think you meant "bait".

You are really insecure, I do feel bad for explaining things to do in such a way. I've been in a lot of pain lately.

I do feel strongly that I have helped you however. It took you a couple of days but you looked up some stats and worked your calculator a little. I'm glad that you now realize that "per attempt" is a better way of looking at things then the general overall number. And I'm happy to see that you agree that our pass blocking was poor.

I'm not 100% sure what this has to do with C Gates, which is what this thread was about. And yes, our OL in the 2nd half of the season did run block well. Again, not sure what this has to do with C Gates only being thrown two catchable passes all of last season.

:tank:
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Facts are lost with you. You brought up Miami having the worst O-line in the NFL earlier in this thread. Apparently sacks per attempt is the say all end all of ststs for ranking NFL offensive lines with you. Not only did I show you how it wasn't, I proved to you that your little comment that you made and tried to spin as factual was entirely not true.

So again facts>>>>>>your uneducated opinion.

I'll leave you alone now. You don't need to admit that you were wrong
 
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