Good players - bad coaching

[DBoston80]

Any Coach who has the NFL's leading rusher..leading sack man..a top 5 defense and loses the last 2 games of the year to miss the playoffs is a suck-azz coach!

...Now alot of this blame can go to Ray Lucas (IMO the worst fin EVER!!) but he had some real talented teams and that 2002 team that humiliated the AFC champion Raiders was the best Dolphin team in a very long time.....and they misseed the playoffs!!!!!!!!:fire: :fire: :fire: :fire:

 

[Fran2fin]

Tony Dungy is one of the best defensive minds in the game, so it isn't coaching.

Tony is a great evaluater of players (ie Grudens SB win) however, I think Tony is not demanding enough of his players hence the Colts failure thus far...I'll certainly take that back if they win the big one......

 

[nyjunc]

but he had some real talented teams and that 2002 team that humiliated the AFC champion Raiders was the best Dolphin team in a very long time

You beat them 23-17, how did you humiliate the Raiders?

 

[volk]

Tony Dungy is one of the best defensive minds in the game, so it isn't coaching.

I semi-agree with you. I like Dungy alot, but if Indy doesn't do it this year, his coaching could come into question a bit. Dungy assembled a good team in Tampa, but consistantly failed to take them to the Superbowl. Gruden comes in, adds some offensive spark, and viola...Superbowl champions. Not much changed with the team personnel during Gruden's transition.

Fast forward to Indy. Dungy comes in with his biggest flaw (offense) fully covered. No need to worry about the O. Unfortunately, the mighty Indy O has most of the cap, so talent is going to be a little diminished on the D. This is exactly the type of situation that amplifies the importance of coaching. In this respect, Dungy has done some amazing things with Indy's D, but he hasn't been able to produce consistantly and with the game on the line. If he can take Indy to the big game he will cement himself as an excellent HC. If he doesn't, there will be doubts that put him in the "very good" category instead of the "excellent" category.

 

[DBoston80]

You beat them 23-17, how did you humiliate the Raiders?

...If you watched the game you would know!! They had like 40 total yards at halftime...Thats domination if you ask me..the defense was very impressive..shut down that "great" passing game...The score doesnt always tell the tale.

 

[FinInYpsi]

I would have to say the team most hurt by their coaching would be the saints. But the Raiders, Vikings, and Rams are probably up there too.

 

[FinInYpsi]

...If you watched the game you would know!! They had like 40 total yards at halftime...Thats domination if you ask me..the defense was very impressive..shut down that "great" passing game...The score doesnt always tell the tale.

Jason Taylor dominated that game by himself! 2 sacks, a forced fumble, and another tackle for loss BY HALFTIME?!?! Yeah, I'd call that domination.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

I think your talent has been overestimated for many years. just blame Wanny all you want but you had alot more problems than him and alot of the same mistakes happened at the end of Shula's reign then during JJ's years and Wanny's years so it's not all on Wanny.

I agree. Wanny deserves his share of the blame, but not all of it. To be honest, I'm not sure how much "blame" there is to go around for a 41-23 record. They were talented on defense but usually had some issues on offense. Questions at GB, RB, OL, or WR. Some of the years, there was more that one question mark. JJ left him with almost nothing on offense.

His first year, he had to replace the offensive coaching staff, the QB, RB, and both WRs. They also started a rookie RT. Tony Martin and McDuffie had fallen to 26 and 14 catches in 2000. Oh, and the QB he needed to replace just happened to be Dan Marino. There is no way an 11-5 record could be considered a bad job.

In 2001, there were more changes to the OL and 3 new WRs in the mix (Chambers, McKnight, and Ward) and a new 3rd down back (Minor). Still they went 11-5.

In 2002, they made the big move for Williams. New OC. Rookie TE. More changes on the OL. Unfortunately when things were going well, the injury bug hit. Lucas cost them at least three games and they went 9-7, second in the division and missed the playoffs due to a tie breaker.

In 2003, the OL didn't recover from their injuries and the team suffered. Fiedler regressed at QB. New WR. 10-6 record, 2nd in the division and another missed playoffs by a tie breaker.

2004 was a train wreck......

Wanny's biggest failures were as a GM (which lead to the 4-12 season) and in his selection of some of his assistants. I liked Bates and Turner but hated Wise and Foerster.

 

[Fineas]

The Chicago Bears had the pleasure of being destroyed by Wanny before us. Who ever took over the Raiders after Gruden left didn't do much with a SB team.

The guy who took over the Raiders after Gruden left took them to the Super Bowl. They crapped out after that, but they did get there. They were pretty freakin' old (Gannon, Rice, TBrown), which explains some of that collapse.

 

[JoeRobStad4ever]

dude, who was that coach for Detroit when Detroit had Barry Sanders? Ray something i think. He stunk. And they had some good guys on D and a pro bowl wideout in Herman Moore. But he couldn't do crap and wasted the career of the most explosive RB in NFL history.

 

[Fineas]

Any Coach who has the NFL's leading rusher..leading sack man..a top 5 defense and loses the last 2 games of the year to miss the playoffs is a suck-azz coach!

...Now alot of this blame can go to Ray Lucas (IMO the worst fin EVER!!) but he had some real talented teams and that 2002 team that humiliated the AFC champion Raiders was the best Dolphin team in a very long time.....and they misseed the playoffs!!!!!!!!:fire: :fire: :fire: :fire:

One could argue that a coach who has a marginally talented first -year starter at QB (Fiedler), Lamar Smith at RB, Leslie Shepherd as a starting receiver, Hunter Goodwin as a starting TE, and a below-average offensive line is an absolute miracle worker to go 11-5 2 years in a row. In no way were those super talented teams.

 

[Finsfan13]

I don't know... Jimmy Johnson slayed our offense.... he built a defense....

Steve Mariucci seems to have a lot of talent on his team - sure didn't look like it Monday night.

Bad coaching / good players - a great example was the Rams loss to the Dolphins last year - seriously questionable coaching decisions on Mike Martz' part.

 

[BrazForPhins]

Saints and Rams IMO

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Any Coach who has the NFL's leading rusher..leading sack man..a top 5 defense and loses the last 2 games of the year to miss the playoffs is a suck-azz coach!

...Now alot of this blame can go to Ray Lucas (IMO the worst fin EVER!!) but he had some real talented teams and that 2002 team that humiliated the AFC champion Raiders was the best Dolphin team in a very long time.....and they misseed the playoffs!!!!!!!!:fire: :fire: :fire: :fire:

This is another one of the arguments that makes me laugh. Who exactly coached the team to produce the leading rusher, leading sack man, and top 5 defense anyway?

2002 was the biggest disappointment. I thought the team was primed and ready to go. Unfortunately, the defense tanked against the Vikings and the game against the Pats was just one of those games. The team that outplayed the other made enough mistakes at the end to give away the game (just like the Pats game last year but in the opposite direction).

IMO, if Lucas doesn't give a few games away, there is much less pressure at the end of the season. Maybe the team doesn't choke.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

dude, who was that coach for Detroit when Detroit had Barry Sanders? Ray something i think. He stunk. And they had some good guys on D and a pro bowl wideout in Herman Moore. But he couldn't do crap and wasted the career of the most explosive RB in NFL history.

Wayne Fontes.