Has Philbin Won Back Miami Phans?

[So Be]

I think we're missing the forest for a few leaves here in some cases. Trying a FG, kicking a FG, and not calling a time out, etc are debatable by Monday Morning QBs (myself included) but, really don't matter a lot in the bigger picture.

The main questions are if Joe has the team moving in the right direction, improving, and if we believe that can lead us back to the "Promised Land" we used to know so well.

I do now believe that he has a chance to do so, and want to see a third year for him to prove it. I think, with all he has gone through this season, that he has earned that right. JMO

 

[phinking]

The announcer used the word 'beg.' As far as I cant tell, no one else has used that term to describe what they said to Philbin or how they said it. In Philbin's day after presser, he said he listened to Hartline and Tannehill but was also listening for confirmation from the guys in the booth who's job it is to provide him with the info he needs to make the decision to throw the red flag. I see no reason whatsoever to complain about this process. I'd also like to remind you that Philbin has been correct on 100% of his challenges this year.

As far as the Rishard Mathews end zone play against New England, I don't see what you wanted Philbin to challenge? It wasn't a catch because he dropped it. Yes, an illegal hit caused Matthews to drop it, but the non-call for the hit is NOT challengeable. Case closed, as far as I'm concerned.

I said nothing about the endzone play. I am talking about the 3rd down play at the New England 30 yard line after New England got the field goal to make the score 17-3. Where did you see me make mention of the Marshall play inthe end zone?

 

[ProStyle]

I like this system a lot, we have to keep it imo.
I like that he makes decisions and challenges on facts and not emotions of the game.
Now Ross needs to get him the right GM.

 

[roy_miami]

Aside from he and his family's character flaws, let's closely examine this last game in particular. Do any of you realize that if Brian Hartline, Ryan Tannehill and Sam Brenner did not beg him to throw a red flag on the Hartline TD he would not have? That is 6 points he and the officials would have cost this team which would have resulted in a loss. Much like the challenge he failed to make against New England on that Rishard Matthews catch in the third quarter which would have put the Dolphins in field goal range. A Head Coach HAS TO put his team in position to win EVERY game. And you do that by making sound decisions on the sidelines. So let's slow down on him winning back anybody.

He addressed that saying something like 'I never met a receiver that didn't have 2 feet down'

 

[roy_miami]

IMO he's got the potential to be good Landry type coach although somethings Joe does are disappointing considering how smart I think he is. My low point was learning that coaching and management actually went to Incog requesting he toughen Martin up and then stood by silently suspending him and letting Richie take all the heat and get destroyed by the hypocritical media without owning up to some responsibility. Whether it's the drill sergeant OLC Turner who initiated the request or not, it's still Philbin's responsibility and his silence has left a bad taste in my mouth. However, I do hope he learns from this and transforms into an iconic coach for us - there's still that potential IMO.

Nothing would have happened if Incognito didn't say the N word on a voice mail, can't blame the coaches for Incog's stupidity.

 

[Sirspud]

I am impressed by the way that Philbin has kept this team together and the fact that the team has been competitive in every game. Only the best teams and organizations can honestly say that they haven't had a game where they played mostly bad football. On the other hand, the storm that we had to weather may have been less of a storm if our game management decisions hadn't added a couple losses to our total. We beat ourselves in a game that was essentially won versus the Bills by calling a foolish pass and exposing our biggest weakness at a moment when it was entirely unneccesary. We handed a game over to the Panthers by giving them the extra minute needed to score the game winning TD while all the while ensuring that we would have no way to stop the clock in the event they did score. It's frustrating to think about, but its entirely likely that better coaching changing the outcome of either of these games is the difference between a playoff spot and sitting at home.

Philbin is a plus in terms of preparation and seems to have effective gameplans going into games, but it's countered by terrible decision making during the course of the game. I don't think he gets fired even if we lose out, but anything less than going down to the wire competitively for the playoff spot is going to have me scrutinizing him. Until then, Philbin is a lot like Chad Henne in his better games, he's good enough to have you compete on Sunday and can total a lot of yards, but failure to seal the deal and making mistakes that counteract the good he has done makes him mediocre for the moment.

 

[roy_miami]

I am impressed by the way that Philbin has kept this team together and the fact that the team has been competitive in every game. Only the best teams and organizations can honestly say that they haven't had a game where they played mostly bad football. On the other hand, the storm that we had to weather may have been less of a storm if our game management decisions hadn't added a couple losses to our total. We beat ourselves in a game that was essentially won versus the Bills by calling a foolish pass and exposing our biggest weakness at a moment when it was entirely unneccesary. We handed a game over to the Panthers by giving them the extra minute needed to score the game winning TD while all the while ensuring that we would have no way to stop the clock in the event they did score. It's frustrating to think about, but its entirely likely that better coaching changing the outcome of either of these games is the difference between a playoff spot and sitting at home.

Philbin is a plus in terms of preparation and seems to have effective gameplans going into games, but it's countered by terrible decision making during the course of the game. I don't think he gets fired even if we lose out, but anything less than going down to the wire competitively for the playoff spot is going to have me scrutinizing him. Until then, Philbin is a lot like Chad Henne in his better games, he's good enough to have you compete on Sunday and can total a lot of yards, but failure to seal the deal and making mistakes that counteract the good he has done makes him mediocre for the moment.

The coaches called a run that play vs the Bills and the QB changed the play to a pass, you can blame them for allowing the QB to change plays at such critical times in the game but you can't blame them for the play call.

The clock management at the end of the Panthers game was OK and your criticism of the situation is nonsensical, we would've either had no time left and 3 timeouts or some time and no timeouts. What people aren't taking into account is if we held them to a fieldgoal we still had time to go for a game winning fieldgoal ourselves, before overtime.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Never lost me. I think Philbin and T-hill can work out well for many years.

That dingbat, Ireland, on the other hand ...

 

[Sirspud]

The coaches called a run that play vs the Bills and the QB changed the play to a pass, you can blame them for allowing the QB to change plays at such critical times in the game but you can't blame them for the play call.

The clock management at the end of the Panthers game was OK and your criticism of the situation is nonsensical, we would've either had no time left and 3 timeouts or some time and no timeouts. What people aren't taking into account is if we held them to a fieldgoal we still had time to go for a game winning fieldgoal ourselves, before overtime.

Since most people here assume that when you win, critcism isn't valid, I'm just going to say that in this case we lost, so it appears to support my assertion that those timeouts were ridiculous. Nevermind that even children can understand watching football games is that when the opponent is battling the clock and the score, the last thing you want to do is take the clock out of the picture. We did that.

 

[roy_miami]

Since most people here assume that when you win, critcism isn't valid, I'm just going to say that in this case we lost, so it appears to support my assertion that those timeouts were ridiculous. Nevermind that even children can understand watching football games is that when the opponent is battling the clock and the score, the last thing you want to do is take the clock out of the picture. We did that.

Man I knew I would hate myself for debating strategy on a football forum but anyway:

Try this: Put yourself in the Panthers situation, what was the best case scenario for them? To score a TD with zero time left on the clock, right? So if you agree that was the best case scenario for them (and even a child would agree it is) then it stands to reason that would have been the worst case scenario for us. So how do you propose we go about avoiding the worst case scenario?

 

[Sirspud]

Man I knew I would hate myself for debating strategy on a football forum but anyway:

Try this: Put yourself in the Panthers situation, what was the best case scenario for them? To score a TD with zero time left on the clock, right? So if you agree that was the best case scenario for them (and even a child would agree it is) then it stands to reason that would have been the worst case scenario for us. So how do you propose we go about avoiding the worst case scenario?

What's harder, scoring a TD when time is not an issue, or scoring a TD when your play calling is limited because you have to battle the clock? It's pretty simple. What's really funny is that us calling 3 timeouts didn't prevent that scenario from happening, it actually made it much likelier to happen. How are the Panthers supposed to magically be able to time their score to hurt us if they have little time to work with and lost the ability to stop the clock? They can't lose the ability to tie the game in their chances to win it.

If everything Philbin did was predicated on not having to drive the length of the field without enough time, why didn't he just have the defense fall and let them score? Scoring a TD with a minute left and 3 timeouts left is way easier than scoring a TD with 40 seconds and no timeouts.

As far as I am concerned, the worst case scenario was that they scored a TD without us having enough time to do so ourselves. The easiest way to do this is not taking timeouts, which funnily enough don't actually mean s*** about how much time the other team will leave you when they have freedom to do whatever they want without concern for the clock, but instead to stop the other team from scoring the TD. Taking 3 timeouts absolutely dramatically increased that likelihood, and I don't see how that can be disputed.

 

[MD]

Wait, are you saying an OL meeting isn't a team meeting?? Weren't they going over work-related issues at these OL meetings??

I don't know what they were discussing and neither do you. On the surface it sounds like Incognito wanted company at a strip club and labeled it as a meeting so he could get maximum companionship. Even in the most structured work environments for the leader to know where his troops are at all times is difficult yet somehow you expect him to know where all his players are. Maybe this particular evening he was following Grimes, Jones, Clemons and Carroll.

I suppose the NFL could mandate teams outfit their players with electronic bracelets to keep tabs on them. Or they could force them into a boot camp atmosphere where they are not allowed any personal freedom over the course of the season. Do that then I'll buy this notion that Philbin is responsible for knowing his players activities 24/7.

If you want to knock Philbin have at it because there are areas he deserves it. Trying to hold him accountable for off premise unofficial activities isn't one of them.

 

[SkapePhin]

I don't know what they were discussing and neither do you. On the surface it sounds like Incognito wanted company at a strip club and labeled it as a meeting so he could get that companionship. Even in the most structured work environments for the leader to know where his troops are at all times is difficult.

I suppose the NFL could mandate teams outfit their players with electronic bracelets to keep tabs on them. Or they could force them into a boot camp atmosphere where they are not allowed any personal freedom over the corse of the season. Do that then I'll buy this notion that Philbin is responsible for knowing his players activities 24/7.

If you want to knock Philbin have at it because there are areas he deserves it. Trying to hold him accountable for unofficial activities isn't one of them.

Incognito fined teammates for not showing up... It was a team function. You can try to explain it away all you want, but if he was on Philbin's radar for sexual harassment, he damn well should have been aware of something like this where the sexual harasser is requiring that several players attend meetings in an establishment where sexual impropriety is very likely to occur.

 

[Sirspud]

I don't know what they were discussing and neither do you. On the surface it sounds like Incognito wanted company at a strip club and labeled it as a meeting so he could get maximum companionship. Even in the most structured work environments for the leader to know where his troops are at all times is difficult yet somehow you expect him to know where all his players are. Maybe this particular evening he was following Grimes, Jones, Clemons and Carroll.

I suppose the NFL could mandate teams outfit their players with electronic bracelets to keep tabs on them. Or they could force them into a boot camp atmosphere where they are not allowed any personal freedom over the course of the season. Do that then I'll buy this notion that Philbin is responsible for knowing his players activities 24/7.

If you want to knock Philbin have at it because there are areas he deserves it. Trying to hold him accountable for off premise unofficial activities isn't one of them.

If we're gonna fault coaches for not knowing where players are all the time, how does Bill Bellichek do when his player murders someone?

 

[roy_miami]

What's harder, scoring a TD when time is not an issue, or scoring a TD when your play calling is limited because you have to battle the clock? It's pretty simple. What's really funny is that us calling 3 timeouts didn't prevent that scenario from happening, it actually made it much likelier to happen. How are the Panthers supposed to magically be able to time their score to hurt us if they have little time to work with and lost the ability to stop the clock? They can't lose the ability to tie the game in their chances to win it.

If everything Philbin did was predicated on not having to drive the length of the field without enough time, why didn't he just have the defense fall and let them score? Scoring a TD with a minute left and 3 timeouts left is way easier than scoring a TD with 40 seconds and no timeouts.

As far as I am concerned, the worst case scenario was that they scored a TD without us having enough time to do so ourselves. The easiest way to do this is not taking timeouts, which funnily enough don't actually mean s*** about how much time the other team will leave you when they have freedom to do whatever they want without concern for the clock, but instead to stop the other team from scoring the TD. Taking 3 timeouts absolutely dramatically increased that likelihood, and I don't see how that can be disputed.

The Panthers still had a timeout left and they weren't rushing at all in our red zone on that final drive, why do you think that is? Our clock management did not cause the TD or help them in any way, if they wanted to call running plays they had plenty of time and a timeout. What I saw was they were actively trying to take as much time off the clock as possible while scoring as many points as possible and we were trying to make sure the opposite happened, which is what we were supposed to be doing.