Herbert Chokes Again | Page 10 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Herbert Chokes Again

AdamD13 said:
QBs are credited with 4th quarter comebacks regardless of how or when the team takes the lead as long as it was in the 4th quarter.

Tannehill was credited with a 4th quarter comeback one game when he threw a TD after it bounced off a DL helmet on the 1st play of the 4th quarter. That’s not a pressure situation.

Not saying some of Herbert’s aren’t legit, just there needs to be a narrowing of the stat to better reflect when the game is truly a pressure situation. Along with a stat that shows when QBs don’t come through.

I recall a few games when the game was on the line and big armed Tarzan (Herbert) threw like Jane with the game on the line costing the Chargers a win.
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Exactly, context us important with this stat.

For instance, 2 years ago, Tua led a go ahead scoring drive in the 4th. The last time he touched the ball, the Phins took the lead.

Both games, they lost.

So did he fail? Technically yes, statistically speaking as they lost the game after trailing in the 4th.


In Herbert's defense, plenty of time they got off to a quick lead where Herbert had no business needing a game winning drive only to be forced into the role. When you have a 14 point 4th quarter lead, and commit no TOS. There's no reason Herbert should be held responsible for that loss.

Just my opinion.

But overall, he's not clutch, no denying that. Well he's hit or miss. He'll either get you that game winning drive or go 3 and out, or drive down the field and turn it over in the red zone. That's why he is not clutch.

When you doubt he can come back or believe he'll turn it over, it's a lot diferrent then the feeling Miami fans have with Tua
 
lynx said:
That's an interesting stat, the kid can throw it a mile but you got to wonder if there's something between the ears which hasn't come full surface yet. I see a very talented QB at times though.
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The kid is a very good QB, and an absolute all world physical talent. Really the only throw that I feel he lacks is the touch type throws. When he throws a go/fly route he throws very flat, which makes it a harder throw and harder on the WR to adjust to it. Some guys just can't throw that touch/rainbow throw with accuracy.

As far as between the ears, I think he is a passive QB. Which I am not a fan of in a QB. He seems to lack that killer instinct. When he has a lead of like 10 or so late third/early 4th, he seems to play like a QB trying to not make a mistake. These type of QBs seem to end up in a dogfight down to the final whistle(hence 18-20 in 1 score games). I like guys like Tua/Mahomes that go out and say **** it I am going to win it right now. And most the time they are laughing on the sidelines when the 2 minute warning sounds because the game is already over. Ya sometimes those guys will make a mistake, but even when they do they seem to come right back out like it never happened and look better.
 
FinfanInBuffalo said:
I get your point, but I disagree with the physical traits being perfect. I am a big believer in a quick release. Herbert has too much of a wind up. Give me Mahomes as the better physical traits. I'm not sure I've ever seen the size and strength of Josh Allen or Justin Herbert combined with the quick release and arm talent of Marino or Mahomes. In the meantime, give me the quick release and arm talent every time.
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I do sometimes wonder if Herbert shortened his release a little bit more if he would become more efficient.
He might lose some power but he would become more accurate.
Almost like shortening a golf swing
 
dan the fin said:
The kid is a very good QB, and an absolute all world physical talent. Really the only throw that I feel he lacks is the touch type throws. When he throws a go/fly route he throws very flat, which makes it a harder throw and harder on the WR to adjust to it. Some guys just can't throw that touch/rainbow throw with accuracy.

As far as between the ears, I think he is a passive QB. Which I am not a fan of in a QB. He seems to lack that killer instinct. When he has a lead of like 10 or so late third/early 4th, he seems to play like a QB trying to not make a mistake. These type of QBs seem to end up in a dogfight down to the final whistle(hence 18-20 in 1 score games). I like guys like Tua/Mahomes that go out and say **** it I am going to win it right now. And most the time they are laughing on the sidelines when the 2 minute warning sounds because the game is already over. Ya sometimes those guys will make a mistake, but even when they do they seem to come right back out like it never happened and look better.
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Agree with the touch, he doesn't seem to have it, but throwing a bullet pass there might not be one better. Actually, Tua's bullet throws seem really fast this year, but that's just the eye test for me.

As for between the ears, there might be something there, might also the way he's being coached as well.
 
Rick Cartman said:
I do sometimes wonder if Herbert shortened his release a little bit more if he would become more efficient.
He might lose some power but he would become more accurate.
Almost like shortening a golf swing
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It is possible, but it is not a easy thing to do. It is not just a minor mechanical adjustment, it is a major one. When guys try it as you say they will loose some power, but that is offset by the ball getting out quicker (less time for DB to react). But a lot of guy actually loose accuracy. It just doesn't feel natural to some because they been throwing it different their whole life.

Brady is the one guy I can think of that did accomplish this. He changed his release to model Marino. But he said if was very difficult at first and took a lot of work.
 
lynx said:
Agree with the touch, he doesn't seem to have it, but throwing a bullet pass there might not be one better. Actually, Tua's bullet throws seem really fast this year, but that's just the eye test for me.

As for between the ears, there might be something there, might also the way he's being coached as well.
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With Tua he has a stronger arm then most think. He unfairly got crucified by the idiots in the media at first when he was still rebuilding strength after the hip injury (and some still believe that narrative). He also doesn't always throw hard, he has a great understanding of when to add some speed and when to take off speed.
 
dan the fin said:
It is possible, but it is not a easy thing to do. It is not just a minor mechanical adjustment, it is a major one. When guys try it as you say they will loose some power, but that is offset by the ball getting out quicker (less time for DB to react). But a lot of guy actually loose accuracy. It just doesn't feel natural to some because they been throwing it different their whole life.

Brady is the one guy I can think of that did accomplish this. He changed his release to model Marino. But he said if was very difficult at first and took a lot of work.
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I definitely agree, he's probably had the same mechanics since he started playing football.
I remember Tim Tebow made people think he fixed his mechanics because he had a different throwing motion at his pro-day; he reverted back to his old motion once the season started.
 
GRYPHONK said:
But overall, he's not clutch, no denying that. Well he's hit or miss. He'll either get you that game winning drive or go 3 and out, or drive down the field and turn it over in the red zone. That's why he is not clutch.
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this is important. 10 years back the older guys knew it as i hoped tannehill would get consistent - which could not happen, in hindsight due to his deficiencies in the pocket mostly. He could look excellent with an unreasonable amount of time to throw so i drank the koolaid errantly. Now watching Tua, its clear as clear can be. 3rd down comes up, there is no pit in my stomach. In fact, i normally predict a deep ball. At the very least he is gonna throw it near the damn marker but usually make the defense pay for expecting we would set our sights so low.

Tua has it. Week in, Week out.
 
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