Hoops scoops…this front office and qb got to go!

[fansinceGWilson]

Yes the owner has input obviously, hence I even mentioned Ross. But Ross doesn't make all the roster moves either. Guy is a poor drafter as well, pretty much only gets guys with premium picks picks. Why do people keep making excuses for this guy. Everyone around this guy has been fired for the last 24 years, he is never held accountable. 9 years as a GM 3 HCs and zero playoff wins. We just went through what was suppose to be a full rebuild and came out with an old injury prone team, with flashy high priced players and crap trenches. Guy sucks.

well,
step 1; the owner has input, so all the blame isn't on Grier
step 2; the HC and his staff Grier AND Ross chose make the draft decisions. Grier is one voice of many
step 3; the HC and his staff Grier AND Ross chose ask Grier to find FAs or unemployed players. Grier does that. He doesn't keep injury hx or cap ramifications secret. The HC knows them.
step 4: teams contact Grier about possible trades, or, agents contact Grier about a player's interest. the HC and his staff Grier AND Ross chose discuss those opportunities.
In none of those cases does *ANY* GM make decisions on his own. It is Mcd who asks for or passes on OLmen, but Grier DOESN'T say they're needed or not needed. Yeah, yeah, I know, Grier said the OL was OK. wonder where he got that idea.
No, I'm not a Grier apologist. I'm a realist. All the steps I note above are real world. I'm not arguing I LIKE all that, only that that's the way 32 teams operate.

 

[sn9ke.eyes]

well,
step 1; the owner has input, so all the blame isn't on Grier
step 2; the HC and his staff Grier AND Ross chose make the draft decisions. Grier is one voice of many
step 3; the HC and his staff Grier AND Ross chose ask Grier to find FAs or unemployed players. Grier does that. He doesn't keep injury hx or cap ramifications secret. The HC knows them.
step 4: teams contact Grier about possible trades, or, agents contact Grier about a player's interest. the HC and his staff Grier AND Ross chose discuss those opportunities.
In none of those cases does *ANY* GM make decisions on his own. It is Mcd who asks for or passes on OLmen, but Grier DOESN'T say they're needed or not needed. Yeah, yeah, I know, Grier said the OL was OK. wonder where he got that idea.
No, I'm not a Grier apologist. I'm a realist. All the steps I note above are real world. I'm not arguing I LIKE all that, only that that's the way 32 teams operate.

Well maybe 31 teams. The Cowboys owner will never fire the GM since they are the same person.

 

[dan the fin]

well,
step 1; the owner has input, so all the blame isn't on Grier
step 2; the HC and his staff Grier AND Ross chose make the draft decisions. Grier is one voice of many
step 3; the HC and his staff Grier AND Ross chose ask Grier to find FAs or unemployed players. Grier does that. He doesn't keep injury hx or cap ramifications secret. The HC knows them.
step 4: teams contact Grier about possible trades, or, agents contact Grier about a player's interest. the HC and his staff Grier AND Ross chose discuss those opportunities.
In none of those cases does *ANY* GM make decisions on his own. It is Mcd who asks for or passes on OLmen, but Grier DOESN'T say they're needed or not needed. Yeah, yeah, I know, Grier said the OL was OK. wonder where he got that idea.
No, I'm not a Grier apologist. I'm a realist. All the steps I note above are real world. I'm not arguing I LIKE all that, only that that's the way 32 teams operate.

Yep, the everyone but Grier defensive. Rosses fault for the coaches, coaches fault the don't win with his players. Lots of injuries, well that is probably on the waterboy not getting the water in faster, not signing old injury prone players.

Done with the stupid excuses for Grier. Dudes a looser. Was never qualified to have the GM spot to start with, was a part of 4 failed front offices (all under Miami) was let go in NE before that (only had that job because Daddy). Sorry bottom line 9th year as GM zero playoff wins, built an old injury riddled roster with no cap space. One of if the worse resumes in all of football for an executive.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

Yep, the everyone but Grier defensive. Rosses fault for the coaches, coaches fault the don't win with his players. Lots of injuries, well that is probably on the waterboy not getting the water in faster, not signing old injury prone players.

Done with the stupid excuses for Grier. Dudes a looser. Was never qualified to have the GM spot to start with, was a part of 4 failed front offices (all under Miami) was let go in NE before that (only had that job because Daddy). Sorry bottom line 9th year as GM zero playoff wins, built an old injury riddled roster with no cap space. One of if the worse resumes in all of football for an executive.

I'm a little confused with the "Grier defense." My point is, Grier, by himself, does not make the decisions. He doesn't. That's reality. He certainly shares SOME of the blame, but so does everyone else involved in the decision. I can just as easily claim you are making excuses for Ross, Mcd, Barry and anyone else involved in "zero playoff wins." why you consider Mcd blameless is puzzling.

 

[Kebo]

I’m done with Grier for sure. McDaniel better have his team playing hard or he can go too. I want to see effort tomorrow. Any loafing nonchalant lackadaisical bull crap and you can blow it up, burn it down.

 

[dan the fin]

I'm a little confused with the "Grier defense." My point is, Grier, by himself, does not make the decisions. He doesn't. That's reality. He certainly shares SOME of the blame, but so does everyone else involved in the decision. I can just as easily claim you are making excuses for Ross, Mcd, Barry and anyone else involved in "zero playoff wins." why you consider Mcd blameless is puzzling.

Grier is the damn GM. Outside of Ross he is the boss. Ross barely even sits in on day to day operations. Grier can override McDaniel at any time. It is his job to right the ship. If McDaniel asks for another midget at WR with is Griers job to stop that. Sorry if Grier is that weak of a GM (which he probably is) get out if the NFL. Grier hire all the scouing departments as well. He is just Ross love child any other owner would canned him after with Tannabum and for sure after the Flores **** show. Heck no other Owner would have ever hired him as a GM in 16 with his resume. Look at me I was part of 4 different failed front offices, who wants me as a GM?

Sorry Grier is the capitan of this ship, if it sinks he should go down with it. Yet he is always the first one on the life boat. 24 years of failing upwards for this guy.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

Grier is the damn GM. Outside of Ross he is the boss. Ross barely even sits in on day to day operations. Grier can override McDaniel at any time. It is his job to right the ship. If McDaniel asks for another midget at WR with is Griers job to stop that. Sorry if Grier is that weak of a GM (which he probably is) get out if the NFL. Grier hire all the scouing departments as well. He is just Ross love child any other owner would canned him after with Tannabum and for sure after the Flores **** show. Heck no other Owner would have ever hired him as a GM in 16 with his resume. Look at me I was part of 4 different failed front offices, who wants me as a GM?

Sorry Grier is the capitan of this ship, if it sinks he should go down with it. Yet he is always the first one on the life boat. 24 years of failing upwards for this guy.

we'll never know, but, IMO, GMs (plural) rarely override the HC and staff. That's an Uber ride to unemployment.
ROSS: Hey, Mcd, your OL is poor.
McD: yes sir, but I, and Barry, and the scouts wanted Humphrey, but Grier made us take Eichenberg. An, while I'm at it, we wanted to avoid Armstead, but Grier signed him without even telling me.
Any GM, on his own, overriding HC and staff better be right. He has no cover, he sets himself up as the cause of failure, and predicting is difficult.

And Mcd, staff, assts, trainers, see those guys every day - all practice. Grier or any GM? rarely. And he's supposed to know better than the coaches?

As a reminder, I'm not defending Grier IN HIS PART of this mess. He shares blame. He, nor any GM, makes decisions in a vacuum. He gets input or, more likely, gives input. I do strongly disagree with blaming Grier and leaving everyone else blameless.

 

[hoops]

Most gms never see a second bite at the draft apple at qb. Grier and tbe gm the cards fired like last year the exceptions.

Grier hedged bets at qb with Fitzpatrick and trading a day 2 pick for Josh Rosen.

That alone gets most gms fired when it fails. Grier was also able to tear it all down (ie trade Tunsil for picks in pursuit of a franchise qb in the draft) and pick Tua 5th. That doesn’t even account for making us watch the most woeful product maybe in the history of the league during that tear down.

No one has ever gotten three bites at the qb apple. Disregard all his failures in the draft with personnel and free agency spending the qb thing alone cuts folks heads off.

Grier is long long overdue for a pink slip.

Somehow winning today’s game against the Seahawks if we actually do (I’m seriously doubting it with our qb situation) doesn’t change that.

 

[dan the fin]

we'll never know, but, IMO, GMs (plural) rarely override the HC and staff. That's an Uber ride to unemployment.
ROSS: Hey, Mcd, your OL is poor.
McD: yes sir, but I, and Barry, and the scouts wanted Humphrey, but Grier made us take Eichenberg. An, while I'm at it, we wanted to avoid Armstead, but Grier signed him without even telling me.
Any GM, on his own, overriding HC and staff better be right. He has no cover, he sets himself up as the cause of failure, and predicting is difficult.

And Mcd, staff, assts, trainers, see those guys every day - all practice. Grier or any GM? rarely. And he's supposed to know better than the coaches?

As a reminder, I'm not defending Grier IN HIS PART of this mess. He shares blame. He, nor any GM, makes decisions in a vacuum. He gets input or, more likely, gives input. I do strongly disagree with blaming Grier and leaving everyone else blameless.

GMs override coaches all the time. It is there frigging job. There is a reason HCs that are also GMs don't work out often. The job is huge and extremely hard to do. Gms and coaches bump heads all the time. 90+% the GM will win. GMs fire HCs all the time, not the other way around. SF back with Harbaugh is a great example. That was a HC coming of a SB appearance and wanted everywhere, and lost out to I am a idiot Burke.

When it comes to player personnel 90% of teams the GM has final say. As you say McDaniel sees his players. What he doesn't see in college players and he doesn't even scout NFL (for trades) outside his opponents. You think after a long season McDaniel (who isn't a scout) sitts down for hours every single day and trys to scout all of college? HC may have a could favorites but there input is much more I Hey Grier we could really use a WR or a LT.

I think you are vastly misunderstanding the role of GM. He hires the coach, he hires the scouts, he hires the guy who monitors the cap. Yes he listens to these guys but all these guys can and often have different opinions. What is McDaniel says I like this kid and the director of college scouting says no this kid if much better. You think they flip a coin of who to draft. No it is Griers choice, the buck stops with the GM.

Bottom line this is Griers team. He has fired and hired coaches. He has fired top scouts and replaced them all along the way. These are all his guys, if they make a decision to get a guy and Griers ALLOWS IT, that is on Grier. Sorry so sick of all these excuses for Grier. This is his HC, his scouts, his roster, the buck stops with Grier. And the facts are 9th season, two **** show coaches fired, zero playoff wins, and a current old/injury prone roster that is weak AF in the trenches. We have been passed over by the Detroit Lions. If it wasn't for the Shut show in Carolina, we would be the laughing stock of the league.

 

[royalshank]

That sounds too simple. Realistically, the GM and owner interview HC prospects. I'm certain the following never occurs . . .
ROSS: Well, Chris, I don't like Queasy. Doesn't come across as competent.
GRIER: Too bad, I'm signing him anyway.
Hard for an owner to fire a GM for hiring a HC he approved.

These two men don’t know what “good” looks like is the problem. We flip flop between pansy and tough guy identities in our HCs. Principle Philbin didn’t work? Hire Pansy Gase. Pansy Gase didn’t work? Hire tough guy Flores. Tough guy Flores didn’t work? Hire Pansy McDaniel.

Not to mention NONE of the aforementioned had any true coordinator duties on their resumes but were vaulted to HC levels in the “hope” of a miracle - finding a “young Don Shula” as Ross stated.

A franchise can’t change its identity every 3 years and not get stuck adrift in mediocrity. At this point, all I can do is hope McDaniel continues to grow. As another poster said, they are now “neutral” on him. That’s how I feel. As for Grier, I’ve always thought he was terrible. He’s been here 20 years - always in the talent department - and we have 3 playoff 1 and dones in that span? Unacceptable.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

This franchise now has the longest non playoff win drought in the nfl. Who has been in the building for the duration of that drought I ask you? Why none other than chris me and my brother should probably switch sports Grier.

All he’s done since he became the gm is pass accountability to others. Hemorrhage money on bad contracts and fail in the draft to maximize the return pick asset wise on a yearly basis in the draft.

...

Do better Ross. Or pass away and let someone else try.

Everything this guy just said is 100% correct. Also, good to see you, hoops.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

well,
step 1; the owner has input, so all the blame isn't on Grier
step 2; the HC and his staff Grier AND Ross chose make the draft decisions. Grier is one voice of many
step 3; the HC and his staff Grier AND Ross chose ask Grier to find FAs or unemployed players. Grier does that. He doesn't keep injury hx or cap ramifications secret. The HC knows them.
step 4: teams contact Grier about possible trades, or, agents contact Grier about a player's interest. the HC and his staff Grier AND Ross chose discuss those opportunities.
In none of those cases does *ANY* GM make decisions on his own. It is Mcd who asks for or passes on OLmen, but Grier DOESN'T say they're needed or not needed. Yeah, yeah, I know, Grier said the OL was OK. wonder where he got that idea.
No, I'm not a Grier apologist. I'm a realist. All the steps I note above are real world. I'm not arguing I LIKE all that, only that that's the way 32 teams operate.

You are the very definition of a Grier apologist. I could offer a visual metaphor here concerning your apologies for Chris Grier, but it would probably get deleted by the mods.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Chris Grier is going to keep pulling the football, Charlie. He isn't going to stop. You are going to keep falling on your back while trying to kick it and saying, "Hey, nice hold, Chris, can I get another one?" until the day he's fired.

It's depressing, honestly.

 

[teemu7]

To have the holes we have given the picks we had is absolutely a fireable offense. It's the gms job to draft well, grier ****ed up those picks probably worse than any GM in our history

To make matters worse mike McDaniel came in and said yeah awesome. The line looks fantastic let's take the rest of the picks we have and trade for a wr.

Then they just repeated this idiocy for 2+ years and now what do we have?

Nothing. We are capped out and old. It's a very bad situation and for those who are saying omg stop it's just week 3, how many times do you need to see this story play out?

Fire the GM. Let the new gm pick a new coach and start over. Again.

 

[Rick Cartman]

well,
step 1; the owner has input, so all the blame isn't on Grier
step 2; the HC and his staff Grier AND Ross chose make the draft decisions. Grier is one voice of many
step 3; the HC and his staff Grier AND Ross chose ask Grier to find FAs or unemployed players. Grier does that. He doesn't keep injury hx or cap ramifications secret. The HC knows them.
step 4: teams contact Grier about possible trades, or, agents contact Grier about a player's interest. the HC and his staff Grier AND Ross chose discuss those opportunities.
In none of those cases does *ANY* GM make decisions on his own. It is Mcd who asks for or passes on OLmen, but Grier DOESN'T say they're needed or not needed. Yeah, yeah, I know, Grier said the OL was OK. wonder where he got that idea.
No, I'm not a Grier apologist. I'm a realist. All the steps I note above are real world. I'm not arguing I LIKE all that, only that that's the way 32 teams operate.

Grier got to fire Gase, he got to hire Flores, and he got to hire McDaniel.
He also told Ross to kick rocks numerous times, the most notable in the 2018 draft when Ross wanted to take Lamar or trade for two first rounds picks.
He should get into politics after this with the way he avoids agency for any short comings
Ultimately he has final say on nearly everything that occurs on football operations side of the organization and makes seven figures a year to do it, i'd rather find someone that can take ownership than being more concerned with creating CYA scenarios which multiple beat writers have stated he is notorious for doing during his tenure.
He's the only common denominator in our organization since at least 2016 and probably more likely 2007.