How Long Does It Take Great QBs To Break Out | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

How Long Does It Take Great QBs To Break Out

I don't think Tannehill will ever be Luck. But that doesn't bother me one bit. I love me some Tannehill.

Honestly, he keeps improving every year. And his ceiling has yet to be reached. Factor those things in compared to how he has played and I think Tannehill is our Franchise for the next decade. On his worst day, he doesn't have the tendency to unravel at the core like so many have before.

Of all the nitpicking many do, and yes I know its the nature of the football beast, what we have in Tannehill is better than 2/3 of the other teams in the league. And that makes me happy. I know Tannehill gives us stability, hope for improvement and immediate results week in and week out. So much so that we can worry about the other positions on the team. And that fact alone is enough to make me not worry about the future of my team. I know we have the QB question answered. Now it's just a function of learning and time.

It's a great feeling knowing how well he did the year before and realizing the next year he will get better. That's something you can't say about most QBs in the league. He's not one dimensional and he hasn't truly shown a weakness he can't improve. I look at other more famous QBs and I can't say that about them.

I still believe Luck and Tannehill will be the best QBs from their draft. Russell Wilson has a great team around him and he works well within the team. He has the "IT" factor, but I don't think he has the talent of Tannehill and Luck. Time will tell, but I think Luck and Tannehill are going to be the long term gems of their class.

Frankly, I don't worry about QB. We have a great young one.

Well said.........!

And.....despite the naivety and lack of patience/rush to judgement tendencies of some football observing fans/wannabe experts.......... who with all their football wisdom still haven't figured it out.....this is still a team game, and surrounding cast DOES matter.

The truth is there is no formula or set timetable for when it all comes together for a qb.

I have watched guys like Marino, Roethlisberger and yes Russell Wilson play well out of the gate....and I have watched teams give up on a Jim Plunkett...only to watch him win 2 super bowls elsewhere....just as Tampa gave away Steve Young and San Diego gave up on Drew Brees, and both went on to super bowl wins and to be lock hall of gamers.

The most common denominator I've noticed in my years...is qb's who play exceptionally well early usually have a good team around them...and the ones that often take longer and find greatness on a second team were on bad football teams.

There is no science to this...no number crunching that will give you absolutes to judge by.

In my opinion....you have to look at all the factors involved when assessing a QB and his progression and future...otherwise, you may end up making a stupid decision like New England, Tampa Bay and San Diego did in rushing to judgement and not accounting for surrounding cast.

Plunkett won 2 elsewhere while New England waited 30+ years for Brady to fall into their laps and finally win one.

Steve Young went on to win the big one elsewhere while Tampa waited nearly 20 more years to finally win one with an all-time great defense.

Drew Brees has gone on to greatness in New Orleans while his former team (Chargers) are still waiting for his replacement to achieve what Brees has.
 
He's not one dimensional and he hasn't truly shown a weakness he can't improve.

Disagree. He has shown one major weakness that I don't think can be fixed and its most definitely a blockage to being great. And I don't follow college football so I can't say for sure but I bet this major flaw could have been foreseen. If you want to know what I'm talking about think back to the Jets overtime game, the one Dan Carpenter is getting all the blame for losing. Its debatable whether Carpenter deserves all or even most of the blame for missing that extra long field goal costing us the game, but the play before that Tannehill did something so mind bogglingly stupid that if I were the coach I'd already be thinking about fixing the QB position in the near future. I was hoping to never see anything like it again but sliding feet first a yard short of the line to gain week 17, with everything on the line, again against the Jets, was another example.

Some people thought that segment where he didn't know the divisions on Hard Knocks was cute. Others saw it as a red flag. I wasn't that worried about it because it could have been excusable if he really followed other leagues more than the NFL but I understood why the red flag people were worried, and now I'm extremely worried as well.

To follow along with the poker analogy: you can't teach certain types of people how to know when its the right time to risk it all. You can teach basic strategies but you can't teach somebody how to play the game at the highest levels.

Having said all that I still think we can win with him but it'll have to be with a shock and awe campaign rather than grinding out wins.
 
Disagree. He has shown one major weakness that I don't think can be fixed and its most definitely a blockage to being great. And I don't follow college football so I can't say for sure but I bet this major flaw could have been foreseen. If you want to know what I'm talking about think back to the Jets overtime game, the one Dan Carpenter is getting all the blame for losing. Its debatable whether Carpenter deserves all or even most of the blame for missing that extra long field goal costing us the game, but the play before that Tannehill did something so mind bogglingly stupid that if I were the coach I'd already be thinking about fixing the QB position in the near future. I was hoping to never see anything like it again but sliding feet first a yard short of the line to gain week 17, with everything on the line, again against the Jets, was another example.

Some people thought that segment where he didn't know the divisions on Hard Knocks was cute. Others saw it as a red flag. I wasn't that worried about it because it could have been excusable if he really followed other leagues more than the NFL but I understood why the red flag people were worried, and now I'm extremely worried as well.

To follow along with the poker analogy: you can't teach certain types of people how to know when its the right time to risk it all. You can teach basic strategies but you can't teach somebody how to play the game at the highest levels.

Having said all that I still think we can win with him but it'll have to be with a shock and awe campaign rather than grinding out wins.

Not sure what you are talking about in the first Jets game, but (1) 48 yards is not an extra long FG (2) sliding short of the 1st is over blown
 
Disagree. He has shown one major weakness that I don't think can be fixed and its most definitely a blockage to being great. And I don't follow college football so I can't say for sure but I bet this major flaw could have been foreseen. If you want to know what I'm talking about think back to the Jets overtime game, the one Dan Carpenter is getting all the blame for losing. Its debatable whether Carpenter deserves all or even most of the blame for missing that extra long field goal costing us the game, but the play before that Tannehill did something so mind bogglingly stupid that if I were the coach I'd already be thinking about fixing the QB position in the near future. I was hoping to never see anything like it again but sliding feet first a yard short of the line to gain week 17, with everything on the line, again against the Jets, was another example.

Some people thought that segment where he didn't know the divisions on Hard Knocks was cute. Others saw it as a red flag. I wasn't that worried about it because it could have been excusable if he really followed other leagues more than the NFL but I understood why the red flag people were worried, and now I'm extremely worried as well.

To follow along with the poker analogy: you can't teach certain types of people how to know when its the right time to risk it all. You can teach basic strategies but you can't teach somebody how to play the game at the highest levels.

Having said all that I still think we can win with him but it'll have to be with a shock and awe campaign rather than grinding out wins.

so you go from predicting huge numbers from tannehill in one thread to talking about how the coach should have been thinking about replacing him for sliding a yard short of the first down marker on 3rd down in what is a judgement call by the officials no less...which is dumb enough in it's own right

i'm figuring out you are all over the place...covering your bases for failure or success i guess...
 
so you go from predicting huge numbers from tannehill in one thread to talking about how the coach should have been thinking about replacing him for sliding a yard short of the first down marker on 3rd down in what is a judgement call by the officials no less...which is dumb enough in it's own right

i'm figuring out you are all over the place...covering your bases for failure or success i guess...

Let me put it this way: you'll never see me poking fun at the Andy Daltons, Melt Ryans and Tony Romos of the NFL as long as Tannehill is our QB. All of those guys put up good numbers and all of those guys are capable of winning it all if they catch the right breaks, but I wouldn't bet my life on it happening.
 
People still talk about the thing with him not knowing the divisions? You gotta be kidding me. He clearly knows them now and you can tell in his interviews that he also knows individual players from other teams quite well.
 
You should upgrade from the Windows 95 Tandy 1000 system. Printing out each frame and making a flip book is no substitute for streaming internet video.

I think the only Tandy that was capable of running Windows 95 was the RSX, the very last Tandy that was produced. That's a collector's item.
 
Let me put it this way: you'll never see me poking fun at the Andy Daltons, Melt Ryans and Tony Romos of the NFL as long as Tannehill is our QB. All of those guys put up good numbers and all of those guys are capable of winning it all if they catch the right breaks, but I wouldn't bet my life on it happening.

how many more breaks does dalton need to catch exactly??? what else could he have...least pressured qb in football in 2013 legit run game very good defense...romo has made more dumb end of game decisions than you could count...way worse than sliding short of the sticks on a 3rd and very long no less on a official judgement call...

get yourself one of those shouright badges...i already heard you talking about that stupid thing as a badge of honor for another poster anyways should tannehill fail

if teams replaced qbs for the reasons you've put out there the league would have like 5 damn qbs in it
 
A QB lacking awareness in a running situation is not going to stop him from being great. You learn hes what 24
 
Fumble, INT, INT on successive drives. This message board erupts in flames if Tannehill does that.

Kaep protects the ball as long as pulling it down and running or throwing it away are options #1 and #2. When he needs to make a play from the pocket and the defense knows it, I do not want him as my QB.

I'm not arguing that he's a top 5 QB, but if you look at the rest of SF's offense that game, and then look at what Kaepernick was able to accomplish, he was carrying that offense. Against one of the best D's the league has ever seen, he came up short, but he played better against that D than did Manning or Brees. If you take away his running ability, his game suffers a great deal. No arguing that. But there aren't too many D's that have the ability to make him a pocket passer; even Seattle struggled to do so in the Conference Championship. SF didn't use Kaepernick's legs very much at all during the regular season in 2013 - likely a combination of that foot injury and wanting to preserve him. But come playoff time, he has a lot of success with his legs, and he makes that offense very difficult to defend. If Richard Sherman doesn't make an A+ play in the NFC Championship, SF is your likely SB Champion. FWIW, that was as good as any game I've seen live. I've watched it at least 5 times. There were so many dynamic players, playing at such high levels, and the competitive intensity was off the charts. After the game, Jim Harbaugh didn't look as upset as he was excited to be part of such an amazing game. I'll grant you that Jim Harbaugh is a weird guy, but I think he had the right perspective. Kaepernick made his mistakes, but Seattle's D competes so hard on every play that those mistakes are almost inevitable. Kaepernick competed just as hard. He just came up short.

I understand why someone would favor Tannehill over Kaepernick as a projection. Tannehill looks more like a prototypical QB in terms of the way he plays. But I'd go with the guy who has played on the biggest stages - and whose play has ranged from very good to excellent and has more physical ability, not that Tannehill is lacking in that department. SF is the main reason I don't love picking Seattle to repeat. I still have them as the favorites, but in any other division, I'd have them as overwhelming favorites. The NFC West held the two best teams in the league and the best team to miss the playoffs. Where I'm getting, I think Kaepernick is very close to winning a SB. Kaepernick is going to have a legitimate chance to win the SB every year for the foreseeable future. He might not ever win it, but he'll have plenty of shots. He's close. Before I get blasted for failing to mention his team, let me do so. Kaepernick's team is better is better than Tannehill's in just about every way - aside from WR last year. He's playing on a great team. But I know that Kaepernick can play well in the playoffs, and I would like my chances of winning at least one SB before he retires. Tannehill, though hamstrung by a worse team, hasn't shown that. You can argue that he hasn't had a legitimate chance to show it. I don't want to get into that debate right now, but there's a lot of merit to that sentiment. My point is that it's against the way I evaluate people to project Tannehill up that many levels of success. Close to playoffs < Close to SB. Kaepernick has shown me that he can play well at a level of competition Tannehill hasn't yet reached. Again, that's not all Tannehill's fault.

This Tannehill's year to turn the tide. I see him getting excellent opportunities in this offense. He has a few guys who will fight for the rock over the middle of the field, and he has a couple of good, and different, finesse receivers on the outside. It's a combination that should work. Lazor's offense and the stability at OT are the big deals. I think he would have been doomed with another year tied to Sherman, but I think he has a solid shot to pull through with Lazor. But I don't like his chances better than a guy who has already done it - understanding the other guy had the much better team.
 
I'm not arguing that he's a top 5 QB, but if you look at the rest of SF's offense that game, and then look at what Kaepernick was able to accomplish, he was carrying that offense. Against one of the best D's the league has ever seen, he came up short, but he played better against that D than did Manning or Brees. If you take away his running ability, his game suffers a great deal. No arguing that. But there aren't too many D's that have the ability to make him a pocket passer; even Seattle struggled to do so in the Conference Championship. SF didn't use Kaepernick's legs very much at all during the regular season in 2013 - likely a combination of that foot injury and wanting to preserve him. But come playoff time, he has a lot of success with his legs, and he makes that offense very difficult to defend. If Richard Sherman doesn't make an A+ play in the NFC Championship, SF is your likely SB Champion. FWIW, that was as good as any game I've seen live. I've watched it at least 5 times. There were so many dynamic players, playing at such high levels, and the competitive intensity was off the charts. After the game, Jim Harbaugh didn't look as upset as he was excited to be part of such an amazing game. I'll grant you that Jim Harbaugh is a weird guy, but I think he had the right perspective. Kaepernick made his mistakes, but Seattle's D competes so hard on every play that those mistakes are almost inevitable. Kaepernick competed just as hard. He just came up short.

I understand why someone would favor Tannehill over Kaepernick as a projection. Tannehill looks more like a prototypical QB in terms of the way he plays. But I'd go with the guy who has played on the biggest stages - and whose play has ranged from very good to excellent and has more physical ability, not that Tannehill is lacking in that department. SF is the main reason I don't love picking Seattle to repeat. I still have them as the favorites, but in any other division, I'd have them as overwhelming favorites. The NFC West held the two best teams in the league and the best team to miss the playoffs. Where I'm getting, I think Kaepernick is very close to winning a SB. Kaepernick is going to have a legitimate chance to win the SB every year for the foreseeable future. He might not ever win it, but he'll have plenty of shots. He's close. Before I get blasted for failing to mention his team, let me do so. Kaepernick's team is better is better than Tannehill's in just about every way - aside from WR last year. He's playing on a great team. But I know that Kaepernick can play well in the playoffs, and I would like my chances of winning at least one SB before he retires. Tannehill, though hamstrung by a worse team, hasn't shown that. You can argue that he hasn't had a legitimate chance to show it. I don't want to get into that debate right now, but there's a lot of merit to that sentiment. My point is that it's against the way I evaluate people to project Tannehill up that many levels of success. Close to playoffs < Close to SB. Kaepernick has shown me that he can play well at a level of competition Tannehill hasn't yet reached. Again, that's not all Tannehill's fault.

This Tannehill's year to turn the tide. I see him getting excellent opportunities in this offense. He has a few guys who will fight for the rock over the middle of the field, and he has a couple of good, and different, finesse receivers on the outside. It's a combination that should work. Lazor's offense and the stability at OT are the big deals. I think he would have been doomed with another year tied to Sherman, but I think he has a solid shot to pull through with Lazor. But I don't like his chances better than a guy who has already done it - understanding the other guy had the much better team.

My opinion of Kaepernick couldn't be farther from yours. I see a guy who can't play the position in the way that is currently most successful. No thanks.
 
That is a lie. Every fan base has fans that hate on a player for no apparent reason. I've heard more than one Green Bay Packer fan complain about Aaron Rodgers and wish the Packers would trade him. You must be one of the Tannehill haters that's led by WVDolphins on here. You better hope Tannehill falls flat on his face this season cause I plan on calling everyone of you clowns out this year. Infractions be damned...I promise you if Tannehill has the season I think he will, you're going to get ripped.

Dude, you will have to get in line, me first! And I think we know I don't care about infractions :up:
 
Kaepernick stands behind THE best OL in football. He runs an offense that dominates teams with their ground game and forces 8 or 9 in the box the vast majority of the time. He throws to a good receiving corps that includes a top WR in Crabtree, an excellent possession WR in Bolden, and a true mismatch seam threat at TE in Davis. They are so stacked that Stevie, the thorn in our side from Buffalo, will be their 3rd WR and is being pressed for that role.

Kaepernick stands unpressured for a good amount of his time nd fails to see his targets winning. If his first read isn't immediately open and he gets pressure, he simply runs the ball.

Hell, Kaepernick is David Woodley. If you really think Kaepernick is a good QB then you probably felt the same way about Josh Freeman. Without Harbaugh building a great OL to carry him, Kaepernick is a below average QB.

Give Tannehill that offense and Tannehill greatly outperforms Kaepernick.
 
Kaepernick stands behind THE best OL in football. He runs an offense that dominates teams with their ground game and forces 8 or 9 in the box the vast majority of the time. He throws to a good receiving corps that includes a top WR in Crabtree, an excellent possession WR in Bolden, and a true mismatch seam threat at TE in Davis. They are so stacked that Stevie, the thorn in our side from Buffalo, will be their 3rd WR and is being pressed for that role.

Kaepernick stands unpressured for a good amount of his time nd fails to see his targets winning. If his first read isn't immediately open and he gets pressure, he simply runs the ball.

Hell, Kaepernick is David Woodley. If you really think Kaepernick is a good QB then you probably felt the same way about Josh Freeman. Without Harbaugh building a great OL to carry him, Kaepernick is a below average QB.

Give Tannehill that offense and Tannehill greatly outperforms Kaepernick.

His receiving core was depleted last season due to injuries.

You're free to make your projections, but they're just projections.
 
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