How would getting a 1st rd 3rd WR change our scheme? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

How would getting a 1st rd 3rd WR change our scheme?

Feverdream said:
I have absolutely zero problem with a redshirt year for an OT... none. I use the first round to try to identify 10 year players, not to find immediate help.

That said... with Armstead's injury profile... and Wynn's even worse history of being injured every single year, I really doubt that a guy like Latham, Guyton, or Mims wouldn't see some (or even a lot of snaps).
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why not have the best of both worlds for a change? Draft a player that will start right away AND will be good for 10 years!
 
Avigatorx said:
You have it backwards.

3 receivers cant get open fast enough when there are 7-8 defenders dropping into coverage. It's a numbers game. Opposing D's got to Tua rushing only 3-4.

You need to stop their 4 with your 5-6 linemen and force them into blitzing (or at least rushing 5-6 guys) to open up receivers.

We consistently lost the numbers game at the point of attack. Fix that and you fix the offense.
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Yes, yes yes. 100% agreed.

Tua was the #1 QB against the blitz last year.

When teams realized they can rush 4 defenders, drop 6-7 into coverage and STILL disrupt Tua within 2.1 seconds. Everything changed.

You need to prepare and focus on having a line that can actually pass block when teams rush only 4. Because when you play the Eagles/ Bill Chiefs etc.

You can still expect Tua to get the ball out in 2.28 seconds. That's fine.

But there's a big diferrence when he's getting the ball out in 2.28 seconds from a clean pocket as opposed to defenders consistently breathing down his neck.

The math is simple.
2.28 seconds was the fastest release in football.
He had 2.1 seconds of clean pocket time.

Get the guy a lime that can pass block for even 2.3 seconds and see what happens.

When our line was healthy and could block our offense was a Juggernaut.

By the end of the season, we kept running the same 7 or 8 plays because our line was putrid.

Look.at hilites
Look at the diferrence in play calling first 11 weeks as opposed to the last 7.

Fix the dang line.

No matter what defenders we have or WRS we have won't matter if we are only having 2.1 seconds of clean pocket time.

LT- Armstead is great. But you expect him to get hurt. His current backups were contributors to that 2.1 seconds.
LG- Wynn is great but less reliable then Armstead. Again, his backups contributed to thar 2.1 seconds.
C- Downgrade. Worst pass blocking C last year. They say he's a scheme fit. Wr shall see. We still have no actual backup C.
RG- Eichenberg..... Need I say more.

If this is truly the line that's expected to make it all work... well, atleast the first 6-8 weeks will be enjoyable again.
 
GRYPHONK said:
Yes, yes yes. 100% agreed.

Tua was the #1 QB against the blitz last year.

When teams realized they can rush 4 defenders, drop 6-7 into coverage and STILL disrupt Tua within 2.1 seconds. Everything changed.

You need to prepare and focus on having a line that can actually pass block when teams rush only 4. Because when you play the Eagles/ Bill Chiefs etc.

You can still expect Tua to get the ball out in 2.28 seconds. That's fine.

But there's a big diferrence when he's getting the ball out in 2.28 seconds from a clean pocket as opposed to defenders consistently breathing down his neck.

The math is simple.
2.28 seconds was the fastest release in football.
He had 2.1 seconds of clean pocket time.

Get the guy a lime that can pass block for even 2.3 seconds and see what happens.

When our line was healthy and could block our offense was a Juggernaut.

By the end of the season, we kept running the same 7 or 8 plays because our line was putrid.

Look.at hilites
Look at the diferrence in play calling first 11 weeks as opposed to the last 7.

Fix the dang line.

No matter what defenders we have or WRS we have won't matter if we are only having 2.1 seconds of clean pocket time.

LT- Armstead is great. But you expect him to get hurt. His current backups were contributors to that 2.1 seconds.
LG- Wynn is great but less reliable then Armstead. Again, his backups contributed to thar 2.1 seconds.
C- Downgrade. Worst pass blocking C last year. They say he's a scheme fit. Wr shall see. We still have no actual backup C.
RG- Eichenberg..... Need I say more.

If this is truly the line that's expected to make it all work... well, atleast the first 6-8 weeks will be enjoyable again.
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I wouldn’t called Wynn "great"......he was playing well enough last year but he's never been great.
 
You’re going to have a #1 WR bitching that his targets are going to a 3rd WR, which is what he did in KC.


“A lack of targets, Hill said, was one of the main things that fueled his desire to leave town after six highly-productive seasons. Hill was ultimately traded to Miami, where he has gotten the lion's share of the targets inside Mike McDaniel's offense…

"[There'd] be some games where I'd get two targets, I'd get three targets. We'd go into meetings and my coach would be like, 'We've got to get you involved, we've got to get you involved,'" Hill said on Club Shay Shay with Shannon Sharpe (h/t Pro Football Talk). "So I'm calling my agent, every week after they say some crazy stuff like that like, 'Bro, I've got to get out of here.'"”
 
Feverdream said:
Mark me down as a 'look for a big receiver in the third through fifth rounds' guy.

Yes, I'd like to work another WR into the rotation, but if we do this right, our new #3 in targets will be Jonnu Smith and our #4 in targets might even be a RB.

I think we need a receiver who possesses a DIFFERENT SKILL SET than Waddle and Hill. Offerdahl mentioned Johnny Wilson tonight... we've discussed the Rice kid... Cornelius Johnson, Luke McCaffrey...

There are several X receiver types who should be available on the third day.
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They don’t have draft picks in the 3rd or 4th round this year. So while I have no problem with them drafting a WR in the 5th, 6th, or 7th round. I believe using their first and second round picks on the offensive line and defensive
Line or edge rusher is more a priority than using either of those first two picks on a #3 WR.

I do agree that TE Smith and the RB position should be utilized more in the passing game and that would make drafting another WR in the first or second round less likely.
 
Ryan1973 said:
Sorry but I couldn't disagree with you more. Whoever they pick in the first round needs to be able to make an immediate impact or it will be a wasted draft pick. I don't want anybody picked in the first round to redshirt for a year. They don't have a lot of draft picks to begin with so they can't afford to pick someone who will be on the bench for a year. Most players picked in the first round are usually instant starters.
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50% of the players taken in the first round... fail, so I take issue with 'most players picked in the first round are usually instant starters'.

This just isn't true.

Also... for the bad teams in the NFL... getting an 'instant starter' does not imply that he is actually good.
 
1972forever said:
They don’t have draft picks in the 3rd or 4th round this year. So while I have no problem with them drafting a WR in the 5th, 6th, or 7th round. I believe using their first and second round picks on the offensive line and defensive
Line or edge rusher is more a priority than using either of those first two picks on a #3 WR.

I do agree that TE Smith and the RB position should be utilized more in the passing game and that would make drafting another WR in the first or second round less likely.
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Obtaining a pick in these rounds is easy...

The cost for a 4th round pick in the current draft is generally a 3rd round pick from the subsequent draft, and we will have three of them.
 
Feverdream said:
Obtaining a pick in these rounds is easy...

The cost for a 4th round pick in the current draft is generally a 3rd round pick from the subsequent draft, and we will have three of them.
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you can only trade our regular 3rd because the comp picks are not a guaranteed yet.....I'd never want to trade our 3rd in 2025 for a 4th in 2024
that's pretty much like trading pick 55 this year for pick 80 this year....would anybody do that?
 
...and lastly...

Wynn was NOT great.

Over and above the fact that he is a walking injury (He's played more than 10 games only one time in his five seasons), his PFF score was 47.8.

Think about it, he played when our line was at full strength... and STILL achieved that horrible score. He was the weak link, even at full strength. I understand that people hate Eichenberg, but Wynn was 1) made of glass and 2) worse.
 
2.23 seconds is barely enough time to get past your first read. A 3rd receiver really doesn't mean jack except for a potential back up if Waddle and Hill are not able to play. A legit TE threat would be a better option for quick seam routes when teams D's are taking away our receivers intermediate stuff.....also a better legit redzone threat than a 3rd WR.
 
Danny said:
you can only trade our regular 3rd because the comp picks are not a guaranteed yet.....I'd never want to trade our 3rd in 2025 for a 4th in 2024
that's pretty much like trading pick 55 this year for pick 80 this year....would anybody do that?
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Lots of teams do that.

Jimmy traded our #1 for a number #2... twice.
 
Feverdream said:
...and lastly...

Wynn was NOT great.

Over and above the fact that he is a walking injury (He's played more than 10 games only one time in his five seasons), his PFF score was 47.8.

Think about it, he played when our line was at full strength... and STILL achieved that horrible score. He was the weak link, even at full strength. I understand that people hate Eichenberg, but Wynn was 1) made of glass and 2) worse.
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Our entire OL was never that good and was masked by a QB who can quickly and accurately get the ball out in 2.23 seconds. It got even worse when we were hit by the injury bug. At our best, our OL was slightly below average and finished up near the bottom....AGAIN!
 
Ryan1973 said:
Sorry but I couldn't disagree with you more. Whoever they pick in the first round needs to be able to make an immediate impact or it will be a wasted draft pick. I don't want anybody picked in the first round to redshirt for a year. They don't have a lot of draft picks to begin with so they can't afford to pick someone who will be on the bench for a year. Most players picked in the first round are usually instant starters.
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100% **** the redshirt year or getting a prospect who might play in year 2/3. We need production this year from our first two picks, have to!
 
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