If Jeff Ireland did what most of you wanted him to do

[Danny]

Don't you guys get it. Every good move was made by Ireland and every bad move was made by someone else.If Ireland had been alone we'd have a roster full of probowlers and hall of famers and would have won the superbowl the last 4 years.Look, I have to be honest here. Every GM/HC will make bad moves.Wanny gave away 2 1st round pick plus a 2nd for a RB that was a head case waiting to blow.Saban took a damn safety at 16.Cam took a return guy at 9 even tho we had more holes on our team than a pound of swiss cheese. Even Shula took some real bad players back in the 80's with his first round picks.I get it that we can't blame Ireland for everything.But some people here act as if we'd never have a winning season if Ireland was gone. But wait, we've had 3 losing seasons in a row, have no playmakers, no elite players and yet we have no cap space.But if you guys want to keep blaming Parcells for everything then go ahead.But unless he has an amazing draft this year he should be gone.

Ozzy rules!!

 

[normaniii]

Sorry, it gets confusing. I keep forgetting that he sat around twiddling his thumbs doing absolutely nothing for 3 years learning from a guy that had no idea what he was doing regarding personnel. Of course, that all depends on when you ask a homer and whether the move was good or not. If it was a good move, it was clearly Ireland. If it was a bad move, it was clearly Parcells. Do I have that right? It's amazing logic.

And 6-10 is not a good year, no matter how you try to spin it. Hell, bringing in Colombo alone is enough to negate all of his "good" moves.

I did not say he done nothing for 3 years, what I did say was, last year when he was in sole charge he had a solid draft and brought in Burnett and Moore, when people like yourself, who know better, were probably clamouring for us to trade for Orton. I know he brough in Columbo, I agree, bad move, but name me one GM who drafts 7 starters every year and does not miss on one in FA.

Now I hope that is not too confusing for you!

 

[normaniii]

Don't you guys get it. Every good move was made by Ireland and every bad move was made by someone else.If Ireland had been alone we'd have a roster full of probowlers and hall of famers and would have won the superbowl the last 4 years.Look, I have to be honest here. Every GM/HC will make bad moves.Wanny gave away 2 1st round pick plus a 2nd for a RB that was a head case waiting to blow.Saban took a damn safety at 16.Cam took a return guy at 9 even tho we had more holes on our team than a pound of swiss cheese. Even Shula took some real bad players back in the 80's with his first round picks.I get it that we can't blame Ireland for everything.But some people here act as if we'd never have a winning season if Ireland was gone. But wait, we've had 3 losing seasons in a row, have no playmakers, no elite players and yet we have no cap space.But if you guys want to keep blaming Parcells for everything then go ahead.But unless he has an amazing draft this year he should be gone.

Ozzy rules!!

If you are referring to my post regarding Ireland having a solid 2011, I never said that he was all conquering and was absent from every previous personnel decision. All I have stated that, based on his one sole season in charge, Ireland had a solid draft and should be judged more on this than the previous years working under Parcells.

Its like a an Assistant Manager, getting a promotion, doing well that first year but getting blamed more for the previous 3, for assisting the previous manager.

 

[Gonzo]

I did not say he done nothing for 3 years, what I did say was, last year when he was in sole charge he had a solid draft and brought in Burnett and Moore, when people like yourself, who know better, were probably clamouring for us to trade for Orton. I know he brough in Columbo, I agree, bad move, but name me one GM who drafts 7 starters every year and does not miss on one in FA.

Now I hope that is not too confusing for you!

Ah, the Orton line. Keep that one in your back pocket, do ya? First, you might want to get your facts straight. As has been pointed out about a billion times on here since it happened, your boy Ireland actually attempted to bring Orton here, but he was shot down by Ross. So, good job Ross, amirite?

Now, please use the handy dandy advanced search feature at the top and find where I wanted Orton here. Hell, find where even a majority wanted him here. There were quite a few, but this place was pretty split on bringing him here, so to say the "majority" wanted him is a flat out lie. Here, I did it for you: http://www.finheaven.com/forums/sho...rton-for-a-3rd-round-pick-at-9-million-a-year

Maybe you (and others that use the Orton angle) and I just have different understandings of the meaning of "majority."

I also like how you keep referring to the fact that he drafted "starters" when referring to players that wouldn't have a shot at starting (or making the roster) on any winning team. Sweet, they are "starters" on a 6-10 team.

Burnett was a decent pickup, though he was **** during the first half of the season and only showed any signs of life against **** teams. Not a bad pick up, but let's not go overboard. Bush was an excellent pick up. I absolutely give him credit on that. I'll even admit that I was partially wrong in thinking that he couldn't be a full time starter. Any search of old posts will show that I thought he was a good pick up, but thought he would be a situational player and play a bigger role in the pass game.

Matt Moore is a different story. Henne was ****. He was a backup before the season even started. Had Ireland brought Moore in to be in a legitimate competition with Henne, I would agree that it was a savvy move. He didn't. There was never any real competition. It was absolutely clear that Henne was going to be our starter. Moore was brought in to back him up, nothing more. Sparano and Ireland hitched their wagon to Henne. Both should have gone over the cliff when he did. Somehow Ireland finagled his way off the cart before that, probably by jumping off of Sparano's back.

You did get one thing right though. I do know better. Hopefully I didn't confuse you.

 

[Tunaphish429]

I hope we can resign both...wake deserves a good contract because he has been underpaid...jake has been paid at a high price so I hope he gives us a bit of a discount.

 

[Vertical Limit]

Look at all the Matt Millen supporters go crazy!

 

[kellyh3034]

Look at all the Matt Millen supporters go crazy!

Matt Millen. A bit harsh don't you think. Like the poster said in another reply, he really has been in charge solely for one season. However, I do think a lot is riding on this years draft for him.

 

[mike_vee]

Extending them would have freed up more FA money. Nice try, though.

Extending long would save some cap space but extending wake would propbably use it up...

 

[LarryFinFan]

as of right now we can adjust that "3 potential starters", into just one... pouncey... and we took a center at 15 to boot. I'm not sure how many teams in the past have taken a center with a top 15 pick...

all of his other picks saw spot duty.. and really made little impact... you could make a slight argument for clay maybe.. and to act like ireland didn't have a hand in any previous draft is just silly. did we just pay this guy for four years, to shadow bill parcells?

it's not about whether he had no impact or not, it's about him reporting to Quitcells...where did Quitcells end and Irish begin in the the 3 yrs prior to last year ?? I don't know and neither does anyone else at this point...and this past year, how much do you blame him for the lockout, reduced FA, no offseason and those issues. Even from a cap stance, did Quitcells put those numbers on the contracts figuring he wasn't going to be here anyway ?? (as if that was a question at all).

So the logical thing, as Mr. Loss has decided, is to give him the reigns and from here on out there are no excuses. Also, while agreeing that Pouncey is the only starter from last year's draft, the rest of those guys certainly were big contributors. That's what you want, right ?? Now if in 2 yrs those guys are gone, that's a different story...we are to that point yet...

 

[Danny]

If you are referring to my post regarding Ireland having a solid 2011, I never said that he was all conquering and was absent from every previous personnel decision. All I have stated that, based on his one sole season in charge, Ireland had a solid draft and should be judged more on this than the previous years working under Parcells.

Its like a an Assistant Manager, getting a promotion, doing well that first year but getting blamed more for the previous 3, for assisting the previous manager.

No, I wasn't refering to your post. I was talking in general that his supporters in the last month keep on saying that we can't blame here for any moves before Tuna left and can only judge him on one single off season. Then they say(and I guess you're including yourself on this one)that he had this good draft last year. Well, I like Pouncy but you don't take a center at 15. Then he used picks to move up for a RB that was probably going to be there in round 3 and recent history tells us that you can get a very good RB in round 3 to 5. IMO, he has not done anything great since he's been with us but I'll give him this draft and see how he does. BTW, I like DT and Pouncy, I just think he took Pouncy way to early and wasted picks for a RB when he didn't have to. But then again, is his old mentality that he must get bigger players(oline and big RB)like this is still the 80's.

Ozzy rules!!

 

[LikeUntoGod]

But Thomas did have the most yards of any rookie and he played hurt so if he can stay healthy I think he will be very nice.

---------- Post added at 07:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 AM ----------

Rookie running back I should say.

D Thomas was 4th in rookie rushing yards with one of the worse YPC averages of only 3.5. He was 3rd as a running back, Cam Newton was the 2nd leading rookie rusher. But Thomas did play the whole year with a bad hamstring and once our OL got working, R Bush got most of the carries.

 

[LarryFinFan]

Ah, the Orton line. Keep that one in your back pocket, do ya? First, you might want to get your facts straight. As has been pointed out about a billion times on here since it happened, your boy Ireland actually attempted to bring Orton here, but he was shot down by Ross. So, good job Ross, amirite?

Now, please use the handy dandy advanced search feature at the top and find where I wanted Orton here. Hell, find where even a majority wanted him here. There were quite a few, but this place was pretty split on bringing him here, so to say the "majority" wanted him is a flat out lie. Here, I did it for you: http://www.finheaven.com/forums/sho...rton-for-a-3rd-round-pick-at-9-million-a-year

Maybe you (and others that use the Orton angle) and I just have different understandings of the meaning of "majority."

I also like how you keep referring to the fact that he drafted "starters" when referring to players that wouldn't have a shot at starting (or making the roster) on any winning team. Sweet, they are "starters" on a 6-10 team.

Burnett was a decent pickup, though he was **** during the first half of the season and only showed any signs of life against **** teams. Not a bad pick up, but let's not go overboard. Bush was an excellent pick up. I absolutely give him credit on that. I'll even admit that I was partially wrong in thinking that he couldn't be a full time starter. Any search of old posts will show that I thought he was a good pick up, but thought he would be a situational player and play a bigger role in the pass game.

Matt Moore is a different story. Henne was ****. He was a backup before the season even started. Had Ireland brought Moore in to be in a legitimate competition with Henne, I would agree that it was a savvy move. He didn't. There was never any real competition. It was absolutely clear that Henne was going to be our starter. Moore was brought in to back him up, nothing more. Sparano and Ireland hitched their wagon to Henne. Both should have gone over the cliff when he did. Somehow Ireland finagled his way off the cart before that, probably by jumping off of Sparano's back.

You did get one thing right though. I do know better. Hopefully I didn't confuse you.

Wait, MMoore comes in an plays well, but there's no credit to Irish because he was only brought in to be Henne's backup ??
Then Scott Pioli gets no credit for bringing Brady, he was an afterthought 6th round pick. Get your facts a little closer to right, Henne WAS the starter last year until he was injured.

However, I agree with you on the Orton thing. All the reports were that Mr. Loss wouldn't pay the big bucks that Orton wanted, even tho Irish and Gaines had worked something out with him. I don't think there was ever a majority of fans that wanted Orton here either.

As to starters being drafted, lets face it if you are lucky your 1st rounder is a starter, you second and third rounders contribute and after that anything you get is gravy...In that respect, Irish did well last year...Our 1st is a starter and our 2nd, 4th, 6th and 7th rounders all contributed and have some upside (we had no 3rd rounder)...

 

[Gonzo]

Wait, MMoore comes in an plays well, but there's no credit to Irish because he was only brought in to be Henne's backup ??
Then Scott Pioli gets no credit for bringing Brady, he was an afterthought 6th round pick. Get your facts a little closer to right, Henne WAS the starter last year until he was injured.

However, I agree with you on the Orton thing. All the reports were that Mr. Loss wouldn't pay the big bucks that Orton wanted, even tho Irish and Gaines had worked something out with him. I don't think there was ever a majority of fans that wanted Orton here either.

As to starters being drafted, lets face it if you are lucky your 1st rounder is a starter, you second and third rounders contribute and after that anything you get is gravy...In that respect, Irish did well last year...Our 1st is a starter and our 2nd, 4th, 6th and 7th rounders all contributed and have some upside (we had no 3rd rounder)...

Oh, he gets some credit for bringing in a good backup that ended up being better than the starter, but people make it seem like Ireland brought him in knowing he would over take Henne; like he brought him in to be a starter. That's just not true. They were riding with Henne all the way.

And Pioli gets credit for being a great GM for a hell of a lot more than just Brady. He's proactive in his moves (vs. Ireland's reactive approach). His manipulation of the roster is ridiculous and he builds around the most important position in football. So, even if you take away Brady, Pioli is still a genius. Take away Matt Moore...Ireland is still nothing more than a decent scout.

And again (and again, and again...), yes, Pouncey was a good pick. A pick that was only necessary because he ****ed up the position in the first place. We only needed to draft a Center because he created the hole. He's getting credit for cleaning the sheets well after ****ting the bed in the first place. Reactive.

 

[Danny]

Oh, he gets some credit for bringing in a good backup that ended up being better than the starter, but people make it seem like Ireland brought him in knowing he would over take Henne; like he brought him in to be a starter. That's just not true. They were riding with Henne all the way.

And Pioli gets credit for being a great GM for a hell of a lot more than just Brady. He's proactive in his moves (vs. Ireland's reactive approach). His manipulation of the roster is ridiculous and he builds around the most important position in football. So, even if you take away Brady, Pioli is still a genius. Take away Matt Moore...Ireland is still nothing more than a decent scout.

And again (and again, and again...), yes, Pouncey was a good pick. A pick that was only necessary because he ****ed up the position in the first place. We only needed to draft a Center because he created the hole. He's getting credit for cleaning the sheets well after ****ting the bed in the first place. Reactive.

Not to mention you don't take a center at 15......even Stevenson was drafted in the 2nd round.Pouncy is a good player but was not a smart pick imo, not at 15.

Ozzy rules!!