Igbinoghene is a stud.... | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Igbinoghene is a stud....

Vontae had his moments. The elite physical talent was there. I just don't think the organization ever felt he was consistent enough even though he had the interceptions.

But it's very worth noting that organization had a pretty stagnant defense for years under multiple staffs because it fixated on guys like Sean Smith, Chris Clemons, and Jimmy Wilson who couldn't get a turnover even if Mark Sanchez was delivering door to door. It had to sign Michael Thomas from another team's practice squad to get a pick to seal a comeback versus Brady, and then they taught him how to not ever get picks again too. When they drafted Will Davis and Jamar Taylor, and Davis came to camp a ballhawk and Taylor came to camp bad, they made Davis not a ballhawk and taught both of them were bad. Guys who made big plays on occasion but blew a coverage or two always got shunned for guys who were more consistently but needed virtual gifts to get a turnover and were thus as a unit entirely unable to generate turnovers.

Things seem to have changed under Flores, but there are still guys like Byron Jones who get signed to market-setting contracts despite not having a turnover in two seasons. Coaches can't help but love them some predictability.
I really like your takes šŸ„” spud. You often bring a different, insightful perspective on things. I had never thought about this in this context but you’re on to something here. I can’t argue w any of this. We had a ton of DBs who couldn’t catch a beach ball.
 
So you invest a 1st rd pick in the strongest position on your team? On a player that doesn't look the part at that. I guess Miami should draft a qb in the 1st round next year, you know because people get injured
Yes. We had 3 first round picks. Corner is a premium position. It was not the strongest position on the team at the time, and even if it were, if he was the BPA on their board, you absolutely do it 100 times out of 100.
 
Imo, Keep him off the perimeter, he’s a slot corner imo, been saying it since predraft..
 
The good news is he is still a kid and Miami is deep in the secondary so are not dependent on him being an impact player this year.

Most players his age are still in college.

Too soon to give up on him.
 
So you invest a 1st rd pick in the strongest position on your team? On a player that doesn't look the part at that. I guess Miami should draft a qb in the 1st round next year, you know because people get injured
Noah was selected as the replacement for X in a few years. The best teams plan ahead and strengthen areas of strength so they don’t become areas of need.
 
I might have to go back to my old sig and add to it:

QBs and those that get after the QBs. And DBs.
 
Vontae Davis didn't really "get it" his entire time here...that was why we negotiated a trade with his grandma.

I mean, while Sean Smith came out of the gates hot with more INT's his rookie preseason than he'd have his entire Dolphin career (I'm not sure if that's exaggeration or not), Vontae had some flashes. But either way it would be wrong to say he ever put it together when he was traded, on a TV show no less, specifically because he never put it together.

Bolded is why I care zilch about stats in pre-season..I think he had 3 the entire preseason.
 
Vontae had his moments. The elite physical talent was there. I just don't think the organization ever felt he was consistent enough even though he had the interceptions.

But it's very worth noting that organization had a pretty stagnant defense for years under multiple staffs because it fixated on guys like Sean Smith, Chris Clemons, and Jimmy Wilson who couldn't get a turnover even if Mark Sanchez was delivering door to door. It had to sign Michael Thomas from another team's practice squad to get a pick to seal a comeback versus Brady, and then they taught him how to not ever get picks again too. When they drafted Will Davis and Jamar Taylor, and Davis came to camp a ballhawk and Taylor came to camp bad, they made Davis not a ballhawk and taught both of them were bad. Guys who made big plays on occasion but blew a coverage or two always got shunned for guys who were more consistently but needed virtual gifts to get a turnover and were thus as a unit entirely unable to generate turnovers.

Things seem to have changed under Flores, but there are still guys like Byron Jones who get signed to market-setting contracts despite not having a turnover in two seasons. Coaches can't help but love them some predictability.
Absolutely agree with this.

Byron Jones is a special case, dude is a fantastic press man corner, hard to not want him as a coach that runs that scheme.
 
Imo, Keep him off the perimeter, he’s a slot corner imo, been saying it since predraft..
Interesting, personally I couldn't disagree more. Too tall, wrong body type for slot. More of a top end speed guy without the sudden change of direction needed to defend the slot IMO. I would NEVER put him in the slot. But you may be right because to date he hasn't been great on the boundary either.
 
If he isn’t Coleman and needham will be there. Secondary is deep
 
Bolded is why I care zilch about stats in pre-season..I think he had 3 the entire preseason.
Preseason stats? Yeah. But you do look at ability, and it was the ability that Sean Smith showed in getting those interceptions (which weren't all just handed to him, one was a pretty acrobatic one in the endzone where he did something like bat it to himself) that was impressive and not indicative of a guy who would be allergic to TO's the rest of his career. I just honestly think that as an organization we had a way of teaching these guys safe play over big plays, and we literally coached the ball hawk skills out of them. I can't really explain what happened to Sean Smith, Will Davis, and others any other way.
 
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Absolutely agree with this.

Byron Jones is a special case, dude is a fantastic press man corner, hard to not want him as a coach that runs that scheme.
Yeah I get it, it's just at best case with Byron Jones you're gonna hold down the opponent. With a guy like X, you are basically turning your defense into a scoring machine. And I see the difference in players in X and Byron Jones like this:

When you're facing a top QB at the end of a game, trying to keep them scoring to seal the game, they know they have to do whatever it takes to make a play and they are gonna challenge coverage if needed. And a guy like Jones succeeds because he covers well, and in normal circumstances QB's just aren't going to challenge coverage that much. But when coverage is challenged at the end of the game, guys who can't play the ball in the air aren't good at stopping that late game surge. And it's especially a problem when that guy is placed on a top flight receiver who happens to be very, very good at beating DB's for the ball.

I know INT's aren't the end all, be-all. Guys like Revis, Asomugha, and Sherman weren't considered the top guy because they intercepted more passes than others. Its because their coverage was impeccable to the point they were rarely ever thrown against. But the difference between a guy like Jones and Sherman (and the others), is that those guys could make you pay if you did challenge them. We all remember "don't you try me with a sorry....receiver like Crabtree" when Sherman was challenged at the end of the NFC championship and showed why that was a bad idea.

There were QB's that just pretty much ignored Byron's coverage last year - one was Kyler Murray who just threw past him and literally threw the ball right between his hands. X isn't as consistent in coverage, but there really isn't a time that a QB sees him in place and still tries to get it past him - at least not one who didn't pay for it.
 
Noah is the type of athlete/player that once he "gets it" and masters the position he'll be dominant.

That's my hope at least. Kid is still super young and obviously a personal project of Flo's.

I definitely like the results Flo achieved with Needham (who he targeted UDFA around R5).

I fully expect the R1 invested in Noah to pay dividends. For now folks need to back off

and allow the developmental process to get results. We should see some notable upside later

in this season and by next year the "stud" hopefully emerges!
 
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