Interesting OGun perspective

[ABrownLamp]

Jason Cole's answers to Dolphin fan's included this interesting perspective about O Gun...

Q.

Jason, you repeatedly mention a difference between a left end (Ogun) and a right end (JT). And, even though JT is better than Ogun, JT couldn't fill his shoes. I am wondering what different things a left end is asked to do than a right end (and vice versa)? Thanks!Debo, Fargo, ND 7/15/04
A.

A left end plays against a right tackle and the tight end more often than the right end. That's because the right side of the offense is generally the strong side for most running attacks. That means the left end has to be able to fight the drive blocking of the right tackle and more combination blocks. Usually, the left end has to be stronger and heavier than the right end. Ogunleye is a bit unusual because he's strong enough to play there at about 265 to 270. Great left ends in history have been like Reggie White (a freak at 300 pounds) and Mike Strahan (who goes about 285-290). Ogunleye has a very strong upper body that allows him to leverage right tackles with his power move and has enough quickness to beat them around the outside. But he's not quick enough to be on the right side, where you have to face the much quicker and more athletic tackles, such as Ogden and Pace. Taylor has freakish quickness, but doesn't have the bulk strength to fight right tackles (like Jon Runyan, etc.) on a regular basis. This is a great complementary pair of ends in terms of their skills. Each can flip enough to create mismatches at times. Ogunleye is the most complete left end the Dolphins have had in the 13 years I have covered the team.

 

[Phinz4Life]

Good post, now I understand the difference.

 

[Cannonboy]

Very interesting. Hopefully they can get this O-gun mess settled in time for the season.

 

[Phinsdude]

I heard from a source inside the Dolphins FO. I will not repeat his name, out of respect for him. Ogun wants a 15 million dollar signing bonus. He doesn't care nearly as much about yearly base salary. He would be happy with a base of 1-2 mill per year, with the 15 million dollar signing bonus. The Dolphins are weary of two things, why does the signing bonus have to be the only importance of the contract, and 2, what happens if he flops, that's dead money. The Dolphins offered him a 5 year deal around 28 million dollars. They have declined and stuck to the, "We want 15 million to sign". You guys can take my post however you want it. I am just sharing with the fellow fans what I got straight from the FO.

He obviously doesn't have enough confidence in his play to let his play do the talking on the field. He wants everything upfront, or else he doesn't sign. That's BS, JT never got more then 10.

 

[Al13]

what about some rookie signings though, no one has signed yet its only 2 weeks till camp, i´m getting nervous

 

[CrunchTime]

Yes,thats why Im for re-signing Ogun.Fans sometimes get confused about players role.They think that just because they have two star DEs that maybe one could be sacrificed to strengthen another position.But it doesnt work that way.The lines are unbalanced by the TE who sits on the line.

The same could be said about OTs.The RT (On a right handed QB) is usually more bulked up than the LT who is usually more rangy and mobile.They are different positions.One cannot replace the other adequately.

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

Yes,thats why Im for re-signing Ogun.Fans sometimes get confused about players role.They think that just because they have two star DEs that maybe one could be sacrificed to strengthen another position.But it doesnt work that way.The lines are unbalanced by the TE who sits on the line.

The same could be said about OTs.The RT (On a right handed QB) is usually more bulked up than the LT who is usually more rangy and mobile.They are different positions.One cannot replace the other adequately.

I don't think fans get confused about a players roles. I think fans realize sometimes sacrifices have to be made in the era of a salary cap.

 

[Jimi]

I heard from a source inside the Dolphins FO. I will not repeat his name, out of respect for him. Ogun wants a 15 million dollar signing bonus. He doesn't care nearly as much about yearly base salary. He would be happy with a base of 1-2 mill per year, with the 15 million dollar signing bonus. The Dolphins are weary of two things, why does the signing bonus have to be the only importance of the contract, and 2, what happens if he flops, that's dead money. The Dolphins offered him a 5 year deal around 28 million dollars. They have declined and stuck to the, "We want 15 million to sign". You guys can take my post however you want it. I am just sharing with the fellow fans what I got straight from the FO.

He obviously doesn't have enough confidence in his play to let his play do the talking on the field. He wants everything upfront, or else he doesn't sign. That's BS, JT never got more then 10.

Heard the same thing. Pretty sad if u ask me, he should b comfortable gettin the money on the yearly salary. He better get some more confidence.

 

[Jimi]

I don't think fans get confused about a players roles. I think fans realize sometimes sacrifices have to be made in the era of a salary cap.

Amen to tht.

 

[saves]

I heard from a source inside the Dolphins FO. I will not repeat his name, out of respect for him. Ogun wants a 15 million dollar signing bonus. He doesn't care nearly as much about yearly base salary. He would be happy with a base of 1-2 mill per year, with the 15 million dollar signing bonus. The Dolphins are weary of two things, why does the signing bonus have to be the only importance of the contract, and 2, what happens if he flops, that's dead money. The Dolphins offered him a 5 year deal around 28 million dollars. They have declined and stuck to the, "We want 15 million to sign". You guys can take my post however you want it. I am just sharing with the fellow fans what I got straight from the FO.

He obviously doesn't have enough confidence in his play to let his play do the talking on the field. He wants everything upfront, or else he doesn't sign. That's BS, JT never got more then 10.

I would take that offer....unless im mistaking the signing bonus does not affect the salary cap. So we could lock a possible premier player up long term for a small salary and still be able to extend Chambers. I would do it in a heartbeat if im correct about the salary cap.Wouldn't that be good for both partys, money to sign other guys and OGun gets paid. And trust me, im no large Ogunleye fan, I would like to see him get traded for a 1st, but that dosn't sound too bad.

 

[BSQX4]

I don't blame O-Gun for asking for as much as he can get. That's the business end of Football. What he wants and what he'll end up playing for are two different things. I see the impasse ending within about a month with Ogun getting a great contract, just not as great as what he's asking for at this time. He's done his job on the field and he should be rewarded but to ask for a bigger signing bonus than Jason Taylor is not realistic and wouldn't be fair to JT, a guy who plays his butt off and is an All Pro player. Drew and Wale need to get their heads out of the clouds. Ogun needs to get back to work already, enough is enough. Spielman has a pretty hard head, he'll pay but he wont overpay.

 

[ABrownLamp]

I would take that offer....unless im mistaking the signing bonus does not affect the salary cap. So we could lock a possible premier player up long term for a small salary and still be able to extend Chambers. I would do it in a heartbeat if im correct about the salary cap.Wouldn't that be good for both partys, money to sign other guys and OGun gets paid. And trust me, im no large Ogunleye fan, I would like to see him get traded for a 1st, but that dosn't sound too bad.

Signing bonuses affect a team's salary cap more than anything else. The contracts work like this:

Signing bonuses: are divided by the length of the contract. So lets say OGun get 15mil signing bonus over a 10 year contract. While O Gun immediately gets the 15 mil, the dollar's effect on the Dolphins' salary cap, is only 1.5 mil per year (15mil/10years on the contract). The bad part with this is that if OGun doesn't pan out, that 1.5mil against the cap every year doesn't go away (until the 10 years is up) even if they trade him. It's called "dead money" in the NFL, and team like the 49ers who traded away Garcia are experiencing the effects of signing bonuses right now.

Contracts: These are usually "back-ended." So for instance even if OGun gets a 40mil contract over 10 years, most of that 40mil will come at the end of the contract. This way, when he begins to wear down or lose his edge over the years, the Dolphins can say to him, before they have to pay the bulk of that 40mil, "either restructure, or we're going to release or trade you. And you suck now, so no one will want you." Additionally, once the Dolphins drop him this part of the contract doesn't count against their cap.

That is why OGun wants his signing bonus. He gets his money right now, and won't get screwed for it later.

 

[saves]

Signing bonuses affect a team's salary cap more than anything else. The contracts work like this:

I stand corrected.

Too much madden for me, with this new understanding I see everyone point. Thanks.

 

[VManis]

I heard from a source inside the Dolphins FO. I will not repeat his name, out of respect for him. Ogun wants a 15 million dollar signing bonus. He doesn't care nearly as much about yearly base salary. He would be happy with a base of 1-2 mill per year, with the 15 million dollar signing bonus. The Dolphins are weary of two things, why does the signing bonus have to be the only importance of the contract, and 2, what happens if he flops, that's dead money. The Dolphins offered him a 5 year deal around 28 million dollars. They have declined and stuck to the, "We want 15 million to sign". You guys can take my post however you want it. I am just sharing with the fellow fans what I got straight from the FO.

He obviously doesn't have enough confidence in his play to let his play do the talking on the field. He wants everything upfront, or else he doesn't sign. That's BS, JT never got more then 10.

This is exactly why Ogun will get signed and be in camp. He wants as much many as soon as possible. If he holds out, he is only delaying himself from getting the money. I've heard elsewhere that the phins have offered to pay half of the signing bonus this year with the rest as a roster bonus next year. So when push comes to shove Ogun will accept the phins offer of half now and half later rather than waiting a year.

 

[Muck]

That's the reason why he wants the big bonus. Signing bonus is the only guaranteed money a football player gets. Look at Damion McIntosh's deal. It's 6 years, $23 million. But the signing bonus is only $300K. What that means is, the Dolphins are only obligated to pay McIntosh $300K (which is actually paid up front to the player, but spread out over the length of the contract in the cap's eyes). We cut McIntosh tomorrow.....he only gets the $300K and none of his base salary, while the Phins gain cap space (his base salaries) in future years. Not exactly the most secure and reassuring system to work under if you've got a small bonus.

One thing that needs to be clarified: If you trade or release a player (before June 1), his remaining bonus is not spread out over the length of the contract. Instead, it is accelerated to the present year while the base salary is credited. If he is cut after June 1st, the team is charged the normal yearly bonus amount for that season (total bonus amount divided by the duration of the contract), and the rest of the remaining "unpaid" (or "unamoratized") bonus is charged the following year. The base salary is still credited. We'll use Wale Ogunleye and a compromised deal between he and the Phins as an example.

6 years, $27 million, $12 million signing bonus

$12 million bonus / 6 years = $2 million per year
$27 million minus $12 million bonus = $15 million total base salary

Base salaries and bonus for this example would be as follows.....

2004 - $650,000 | $2 million
2005 - $850,000 | $2 million
2006 - $1,000,000 | $2 million
2007 - $2,500,000 | $2 million
2008 - $5,000,000 | $2 million
2009 - $5,000,000 | $2 million

**Notice the backloaded base salaries. Almost every large veteran and rookie 1st round contract is structured this way**

Under these contract terms, if we were to cut Wale tomorrow (if he were signed to this deal), Wale would count $1.35 million ($2 million minus $650K) to the 2004 cap and $9.15 million ($10 million minus $850K) to the 2005 cap.

**Remember, it's the remaining ("unamoritized") bonus minus that year's base salary.**

If we cut him BEFORE June 1, 2005, Wale would count $9.15 million against the 2005 cap and nothing more thereafter.

If we cut him AFTER June 1, 2005, Wale would count $1.15 million ($2 million minus $850K) against the 2005 cap and $7 million ($8 million minus $1 million) in 2006.

I should point out that I am by no means an expert. And if I am mistaken, please correct me. But as you can see, it's no sweat off our backs to cut a guy like McIntosh. His signing bonus would barely register a "blip" in the salary cap "radar". It comes to $50K a year. And that's why it's such a great deal for the Phins. But when you get into the big money like Wale and JT, the team is tied to you.

With the way today's salary cap is structured, the BONUS is more like a "base salary" and the BASE SALARY is more like a "bonus"......since the bonus is the only thing guaranteed, while actually seeing even 3/4 of your contract's base salary is a bonus. :tongue:

This is just a very basic and uncomplicated explanation of this aspect of the salary cap. I am nowhere near as knowledgeable as Clumpy or Merman when it comes to this stuff (this is just about the extent of my "expertise" on the subject). And I'm just waiting for those two guys to come here and correct all the mistakes I made, making me look like a fool. :tongue: