Interesting Tannehill Stat Comparison

[Shouright]

So where does that put him? 10th in the league? As a 2nd year player behind a shaky OL? I'll take it. Instead of hiding behind your ridiculous statement that he isn't "significantly above average" (which you seem to pull out whenever he is above average), why not just state where he ranks and who is above him? Because it fits your agenda to phrase things the way you do.

Because that wouldn't convey the variation in the statistic throughout the league, and Tannehill's deviation from the league norm as a function of that variation.

What's ironic about what you said is that stating only his league rank could easily be a way of providing misleading statistical information to fit an agenda.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Because that wouldn't convey the variation in the statistic throughout the league, and Tannehill's deviation from the league norm as a function of that variation.

What's ironic about what you said is that stating only his league rank could easily be a way of providing misleading statistical information to fit an agenda.

So who else on the list is also "average"? I'm will to bet there are QBs on that list that most people would say are above average.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I always enjoy it when posters who have no background in YPA or similar categories jump in and pretend they know something. Invariably the emphasis is on happy adjustment. No different in this thread.

Tannehill has been in the 6.8 to 7.1 range for 4 consecutive seasons on two different levels. At Texas A&M he played in a below average defensive conference yet couldn't manage above average YPA even for that conference, in either 2010 or 2011. He was always smack at the conference baseline. Now he's below average in YPA in the NFL. The posters who choose to ignore that and make the happy adjustments are laughably clueless toward the burden they are undertaking. As always, I have no idea how shouright maintains the patience.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

How does one have background in YPA?

 

[Shouright]

So who else on the list is also "average"? I'm will to bet there are QBs on that list that most people would say are above average.

In descending order:

Name AIR YPA (DROPS)
 Jay Cutler 5.35
 Colin Kaepernick 5.30
 Russell Wilson 5.22
 Peyton Manning 5.01
 Eli Manning 4.93
 Aaron Rodgers 4.90
 Matthew Stafford 4.89
 Philip Rivers 4.89
 Tom Brady 4.82
 Mike Glennon 4.71
 Brandon Weeden 4.71
 Ryan Tannehill 4.68
 Drew Brees 4.58
 Carson Palmer 4.52
 Geno Smith 4.37
 Tony Romo 4.32
 Andy Dalton 4.32
 Robert Griffin III 4.31
 Cam Newton 4.31
 Joe Flacco 4.31
 Matt Schaub 4.24
 Christian Ponder 4.21
 Ben Roethlisberger 4.12
 Andrew Luck 4.00
 Matt Ryan 3.96
 E.J. Manuel 3.82
 Alex D. Smith 3.65
 Terrelle Pryor 3.53
 Sam Bradford 3.45
 Chad Henne 3.39

 

[rent this space]

I always find it amusing when fans of other teams come to Finheaven and go to great lengths to convince themselves the Dolphins aren't good

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

In descending order:

Name AIR YPA (DROPS)
 Jay Cutler 5.35
 Colin Kaepernick 5.30
 Russell Wilson 5.22
 Peyton Manning 5.01
 Eli Manning 4.93
 Aaron Rodgers 4.90
 Matthew Stafford 4.89
 Philip Rivers 4.89
 Tom Brady 4.82
 Mike Glennon 4.71
 Brandon Weeden 4.71
 Ryan Tannehill 4.68
 Drew Brees 4.58
 Carson Palmer 4.52
 Geno Smith 4.37
 Tony Romo 4.32
 Andy Dalton 4.32
 Robert Griffin III 4.31
 Cam Newton 4.31
 Joe Flacco 4.31
 Matt Schaub 4.24
 Christian Ponder 4.21
 Ben Roethlisberger 4.12
 Andrew Luck 4.00
 Matt Ryan 3.96
 E.J. Manuel 3.82
 Alex D. Smith 3.65
 Terrelle Pryor 3.53
 Sam Bradford 3.45
 Chad Henne 3.39

Woohoo!!!! He is better than Drew Brees!!!

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

I always enjoy it when posters who have no background in YPA or similar categories jump in and pretend they know something. Invariably the emphasis is on happy adjustment. No different in this thread.

Tannehill has been in the 6.8 to 7.1 range for 4 consecutive seasons on two different levels. At Texas A&M he played in a below average defensive conference yet couldn't manage above average YPA even for that conference, in either 2010 or 2011. He was always smack at the conference baseline. Now he's below average in YPA in the NFL. The posters who choose to ignore that and make the happy adjustments are laughably clueless toward the burden they are undertaking. As always, I have no idea how shouright maintains the patience.

Get a clue....

 

[Daytona Fin]

I don't even know why the NFL are having playoffs this year , just give the trophy to the team with the qb that has the highest YPA.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

In descending order:

Name AIR YPA (DROPS)
 Jay Cutler 5.35
 Colin Kaepernick 5.30
 Russell Wilson 5.22
 Peyton Manning 5.01
 Eli Manning 4.93
 Aaron Rodgers 4.90
 Matthew Stafford 4.89
 Philip Rivers 4.89
 Tom Brady 4.82
 Mike Glennon 4.71
 Brandon Weeden 4.71
 Ryan Tannehill 4.68
 Drew Brees 4.58
 Carson Palmer 4.52
 Geno Smith 4.37
 Tony Romo 4.32
 Andy Dalton 4.32
 Robert Griffin III 4.31
 Cam Newton 4.31
 Joe Flacco 4.31
 Matt Schaub 4.24
 Christian Ponder 4.21
 Ben Roethlisberger 4.12
 Andrew Luck 4.00
 Matt Ryan 3.96
 E.J. Manuel 3.82
 Alex D. Smith 3.65
 Terrelle Pryor 3.53
 Sam Bradford 3.45
 Chad Henne 3.39

BTW, which one of these lists better corresponds (or correlates) to "perceptions" of QB quality?

1 P.Manning
2 D.Brees
3 P.Rivers
4 M.Stafford
5 E.Manning
6 T.Brady
7 C.Palmer
8 QB xyz
9 B.Roethlisberger
10 M.Ryan
11 T.Romo
12 J.Flacco

1 Jay Cutler
2 Colin Kaepernick
3 Russell Wilson
4 Peyton Manning
5 Eli Manning
6 Aaron Rodgers
7 Matthew Stafford
8 Philip Rivers
9 Tom Brady
10 Mike Glennon
11 Brandon Weeden
12 QB xyz

Only 6 out of 12 are on both lists.

 

[Shouright]

BTW, which one of these lists better corresponds (or correlates) to "perceptions" of QB quality?

1 P.Manning
2 D.Brees
3 P.Rivers
4 M.Stafford
5 E.Manning
6 T.Brady
7 C.Palmer
8 QB xyz
9 B.Roethlisberger
10 M.Ryan
11 T.Romo
12 J.Flacco

1 Jay Cutler
2 Colin Kaepernick
3 Russell Wilson
4 Peyton Manning
5 Eli Manning
6 Aaron Rodgers
7 Matthew Stafford
8 Philip Rivers
9 Tom Brady
10 Mike Glennon
11 Brandon Weeden
12 QB xyz

Only 6 out of 12 are on both lists.

Throw these lists in the mix as well:

1. Manning
2. Brees
3. Wilson
4. Rivers
5. Romo
6. Roethlisberger
7. Ryan
8. Brady
9. Stafford
10. Newton
11. Dalton
12. Kaepernick

1. Manning
2. Rivers
3. Brees
4. Wilson
5. Stafford
6. Romo
7. Roethlisberger
8. Kaepernick
9. Brady
10. Dalton
11. Luck
12. Ryan

1. Manning
2. Rivers
3. Brees
4. Brady
5. Stafford
6. Luck
7. Rodgers
8. Wilson
9. Newton
10. Romo
11. Flacco
12. Foles

1. Manning
2. Rivers
3. Brees
4. Ryan
5. Stafford
6. Wilson
7. Romo
8. Rodgers
9. Brady
10. Foles
11. Roethlisberger
12. Luck

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Throw these lists in the mix as well:

1. Manning
2. Brees
3. Wilson
4. Rivers
5. Romo
6. Roethlisberger
7. Ryan
8. Brady
9. Stafford
10. Newton
11. Dalton
12. Kaepernick

1. Manning
2. Rivers
3. Brees
4. Wilson
5. Stafford
6. Romo
7. Roethlisberger
8. Kaepernick
9. Brady
10. Dalton
11. Luck
12. Ryan

1. Manning
2. Rivers
3. Brees
4. Brady
5. Stafford
6. Luck
7. Rodgers
8. Wilson
9. Newton
10. Romo
11. Flacco
12. Foles

1. Manning
2. Rivers
3. Brees
4. Ryan
5. Stafford
6. Wilson
7. Romo
8. Rodgers
9. Brady
10. Foles
11. Roethlisberger
12. Luck

I like my list the best.

BTW, it didn't go unnoticed that you ignored the article that I linked to that blows up you thoughts on YPA.

 

[Shouright]

I like my list the best.

BTW, it didn't go unnoticed that you ignored the article that I linked to that blows up you thoughts on YPA.

Did you manage to read the one I posted earlier in the thread?

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.co...r-yards-vs-yards-after-catch-1992-2012/23605/

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Did you manage to read the one I posted earlier in the thread?

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.co...r-yards-vs-yards-after-catch-1992-2012/23605/

You mean the one that said these things?:

"While passing yards are thought of as an individual quarterback stat in the NFL, we know a good chunk of those yards come from the receiver after he catches the ball. That’s why it would be beneficial to separate the air yards from the yards after catch (YAC)."

"If we look at the top 10 quarterbacks in YPA on just YAC, greatness does shine through for the most part:

It’s a lot of active players, but that’s what we expect these days. These are the quarterbacks who play efficiently but also get a considerable amount of help with YAC."

"Tom Brady’s AIR YPA is 3.95, which puts him at 46th with Jon Kitna and Vince Young breathing down his neck."

Do you conclude that Brady is well below average?

All of this tells me that the game is much more complicated and nuanced than you think and cannot be summed up in a single linear correlation between two numbers. Both articles confirm what I have been trying to tell you for this entire thread (and others), YPA is a team stat that is dependent on the QB, receivers, OL, and offensive scheme. Hell, YPA is also partially dependent on your defense. Playing from behind leads to garbage time yards through the air. Air Yards and YAC are related (just not linearly).

Let's put this to rest. No stat tells the whole story. Interpretation of the stats is subjective. If you can conclude that Tom Brady's AIR YPA is not reflective of his skill as a QB, I can conclude that Tannehill's YPA is not reflective of his skill as a QB but of the TEAM'S offensive efficiency. There is nothing at all controversial about that statement. It is entirely logical and supported by what people see on the field.

You are completely wrong-headed about how stats should be used in looking at football. You are on a search to find the stats that can explain the game and answer all the questions about individual players without looking at what actually happens. I think stats are fine as a starting point, but you must watch the game to fully understand the meaning of the stats. That is what happens in real life with people who earn a living at playing, coaching, and managing football and that's good enough for me.

 

[Shouright]

You mean the one that said these things?:

"While passing yards are thought of as an individual quarterback stat in the NFL, we know a good chunk of those yards come from the receiver after he catches the ball. That’s why it would be beneficial to separate the air yards from the yards after catch (YAC)."

"If we look at the top 10 quarterbacks in YPA on just YAC, greatness does shine through for the most part:

It’s a lot of active players, but that’s what we expect these days. These are the quarterbacks who play efficiently but also get a considerable amount of help with YAC."

"Tom Brady’s AIR YPA is 3.95, which puts him at 46th with Jon Kitna and Vince Young breathing down his neck."

Do you conclude that Brady is well below average?

All of this tells me that the game is much more complicated and nuanced than you think and cannot be summed up in a single linear correlation between two numbers. Both articles confirm what I have been trying to tell you for this entire thread (and others), YPA is a team stat that is dependent on the QB, receivers, OL, and offensive scheme. Hell, YPA is also partially dependent on your defense. Playing from behind leads to garbage time yards through the air. Air Yards and YAC are related (just not linearly).

Let's put this to rest. No stat tells the whole story. Interpretation of the stats is subjective. If you can conclude that Tom Brady's AIR YPA is not reflective of his skill as a QB, I can conclude that Tannehill's YPA is not reflective of his skill as a QB but of the TEAM'S offensive efficiency. There is nothing at all controversial about that statement. It is entirely logical and supported by what people see on the field.

You are completely wrong-headed about how stats should be used in looking at football. You are on a search to find the stats that can explain the game and answer all the questions about individual players without looking at what actually happens. I think stats are fine as a starting point, but you must watch the game to fully understand the meaning of the stats. That is what happens in real life with people who earn a living at playing, coaching, and managing football and that's good enough for me.

Again, I'll stick with the correlation between YPA and the consensus perceptions of quarterbacks' individual ability. YAC isn't fully attributable to the receiver.