Interesting....

[phins_4_ever]

I like Rosen, I would keep him and build around him,

but let's all be honest with ourselves

Brady has more energy when he's hung over & hasn't slept for 2 days than Rosen on his best day.

Brady also plays for the last 18 years in the same system. When Belichick started at NE and installed the system which will eventually create the NE Patriots of the last 18 years he was a 3rd string QB. The Pats went 5-11 that year of rebuilding. In Brady's second year (and Belichick's second year) when he finally got the starting gig he was a pedestrian QB using the tools Belichick has acquired. I actually recall watching him in his first year at then JRS. I remember how we mocked the Patriots for starting Brady.
The Superbowl that year was an "unplanned" occurance which was heavily aided by the "tuck play". Without that play the Patriots would have quietly exited the playoffs.
And if you look at Brady's performance in the playoffs you can easily say the Patriots won the Superbowl despit Brady and not because of him.

You are describing a QB who is 18 years in the same system with the same team with the same HC. The big advantage Brady has had over Rosen was that in his first year he was sitting on the sideline (watching a probowl QB) while Belichick began his rebuilding process and in his second year they ask him to do nothing except no mistakes and using the cast which was assembled that offseason. It was not until his third year when you could see the Brady of the future.

Their was a reason that Flores and Grier traded for Rosen. If they were set on drafting a QB in the first round they could have kept the draft picks. Rosen looks more Brady then not. As matter of fact Rosen's college career is always dissed on here. But if you run a comparison Brady can't even hold Rosen's jock strap. The only thing they were close is completion percentage.

The biggest problem I see with people evaluating Rosen is that they do not want to admit that he played on a crapshit AZ team last year as a rookie with absolutely 0 guidance. And this year while everybody agrees that we have the "worst NFL team ever" assembled that does not seem to account for anything. People just expect him to make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

There was also a reason that the Patriots lined up right behind us to use their 3rd round pick on Rosen. He'd be the perfect fit to replace Brady when he decides to retire.

 

[Phinatic8u]

Congrats Rosen you can hit targets when you're not being rushed.

His pressure rate must be in the tank.

 

[Agua]

Watching 47 years of Dolphins football, especially the last twenty, you learn not to pin hopes on a player developing into something special, but recognize that it can happen. It's the same with any potential draft pick out there, whether Tua or Hebert or Love or whoever it is you think is going to be a savior. You just have to see how they play. It's the same with Rosen. Don't pin hopes on the guy, but just see how he plays. If he's able to stay healthy, we'll know by the end of the season if there's something there to work with. As someone said above, he controls his own destiny; he can play us out of position to get us that #1 or #2 without coughing up all the resources this team painfully acquired over the last 10 months.

 

[kenneth c cooper]

View attachment 27438

And with less
Talent and a invisible offensive line

 

[Lionstone]

It says from a clean pocket... so it must be from a very small sample size. May 2 or 3 pass attempts.

Stop. Just stop!

 

[Lionstone]

I think besides the terrible OL the Dolphins have a big reason Brady rarely has gotten sacked is because he gets rid of the ball very fast. Brady gets rid of the ball 3rd fastest in the NFL at 2.49 seconds compared to Rosen who takes 2.7.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw

Yes, he does. It helps being in the same system for 15 years.

 

[tcdrover]

Brady also plays for the last 18 years in the same system. When Belichick started at NE and installed the system which will eventually create the NE Patriots of the last 18 years he was a 3rd string QB. The Pats went 5-11 that year of rebuilding. In Brady's second year (and Belichick's second year) when he finally got the starting gig he was a pedestrian QB using the tools Belichick has acquired. I actually recall watching him in his first year at then JRS. I remember how we mocked the Patriots for starting Brady.
The Superbowl that year was an "unplanned" occurance which was heavily aided by the "tuck play". Without that play the Patriots would have quietly exited the playoffs.
And if you look at Brady's performance in the playoffs you can easily say the Patriots won the Superbowl despit Brady and not because of him.

You are describing a QB who is 18 years in the same system with the same team with the same HC. The big advantage Brady has had over Rosen was that in his first year he was sitting on the sideline (watching a probowl QB) while Belichick began his rebuilding process and in his second year they ask him to do nothing except no mistakes and using the cast which was assembled that offseason. It was not until his third year when you could see the Brady of the future.

Their was a reason that Flores and Grier traded for Rosen. If they were set on drafting a QB in the first round they could have kept the draft picks. Rosen looks more Brady then not. As matter of fact Rosen's college career is always dissed on here. But if you run a comparison Brady can't even hold Rosen's jock strap. The only thing they were close is completion percentage.

The biggest problem I see with people evaluating Rosen is that they do not want to admit that he played on a crapshit AZ team last year as a rookie with absolutely 0 guidance. And this year while everybody agrees that we have the "worst NFL team ever" assembled that does not seem to account for anything. People just expect him to make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

There was also a reason that the Patriots lined up right behind us to use their 3rd round pick on Rosen. He'd be the perfect fit to replace Brady when he decides to retire.

That was a LONG reply...

I agree with most of that, BUT...

It doesn't really address what I posted at all...

like at all, in any way, not even in the vaguest, slightest way .

Rosen biggest flaw is not his play. It's his personality. He is a LOW energy kid, nothing wrong with that.

Like I posted I like him & would keep him & build around him, but one of the KEY differences between him & Brady is PERSONALITY & ENERGY.

Also, you seem to be completely focused on stats. Brady was a HUGE part of that team right away. He was a CONSTANT SPARK.

If there was a meter rating body language, they would be on complete opposites of the meter.

You are reading MORE into what I posted than is there, and you are completely MISSING my point.

 

[GOfins54]

Brady is rarely hit much less sacked. When he IS pressured consistently in a game he usually drops to the ground like a little girl and he often loses those games. The Giants proved that in the two SBs and even Miami used to rattle him a lot in many of the games that the Fins won in Miami over the years. He wouldn't have survived the last several years playing behind Miami's OL.

In his later career, this stems from him being able to make good reads. Sure he’s had better lines but he’s also a MUCH better player than Rosen will ever be. Earlier in his career, Brady was hidden by defense, run game and coaching. Now he’s part of the success.

Pressure burts pipes, that’s true for any quarterback. Brady is just a better plumber than most.

 

[K-Rob]

I like Rosen, I would keep him and build around him,

but let's all be honest with ourselves

Brady has more energy when he's hung over & hasn't slept for 2 days than Rosen on his best day.

If I had a clean pocket for 90% of my 19 year career I’d be pretty energetic also.

 

[Dolph N.Fan]

I would say a good chunk of Rosen’s clean pocket attempts have been screen passes....he isn’t getting any time to throw it otherwise.

It’s kind of a meaningless stat unless ypp is taken into account.

And because Brady’s line is allowed to hold way more than your average team.

 

[phins_4_ever]

That was a LONG reply...

I agree with most of that, BUT...

It doesn't really address what I posted at all...

like at all, in any way, not even in the vaguest, slightest way .

Rosen biggest flaw is not his play. It's his personality. He is a LOW energy kid, nothing wrong with that.

Like I posted I like him & would keep him & build around him, but one of the KEY differences between him & Brady is PERSONALITY & ENERGY.

Also, you seem to be completely focused on stats. Brady was a HUGE part of that team right away. He was a CONSTANT SPARK.

If there was a meter rating body language, they would be on complete opposites of the meter.

You are reading MORE into what I posted than is there, and you are completely MISSING my point.

My observation on Brady is not stats alone. I saw him play. Plenty of times and he was NOT a huge part from the get go. After he was drafted he was third string. In year two he worked himself up to backup. When he finally got the start after Bledsoe got hurt he did what he was supposed to do: do not make a mistake. Learn in the system. Do not cost the team. You are trying to rewrite history to fit your own agenda.

Now it is personality and energy? Good lord. Have you watched Brady in his career at all? Brady was known for low energy and stoic behavior. He hardly ever opened his mouth on the sideline. He had a chip on his shoulder to make teams pay for bypassing him several times in the draft but he was not an outspoken QB until the second part of his career. As a matter of fact his coolness on the field, on the sideline and off the field was a staple of his early career.

If you would put Rosen on the Patriots team right now he would be Brady of 2001. Pedestrian, learning the system, efficient, nothing spectacular etc. But in the world of QB development the Pats would love to have that if Brady would retire tomorrow. The question then would be: would he develop further.

If you want to compare QBs you have to compare them at the state they were in where Rosen is now and you have to account the surrounding cast and coaches they had at that time. Brady was inserted into a team which was in his second year of a rebuild. The first year in that rebuild they went 5-11 with a pro bowl QB. I usually try to shy away from any comparison because there are too many variables which were different (coaches, system, philosophy, players etc) but if you have to compare you have to consider all these variables and intangibles.

If you want to evaluate Rosen or any other QB of the team you evaluate by what you see, consider the system they are trying to implement and the cast surrounding him.
The best start is to see him as a 2nd round draft pick for us and treat him like a rookie. None of us can change the Cardinals team from last year. We can't change the crappy coaches they head, the make shift OL and one of the reason our coaching staff gave him a clean slate is because he was not taught a dam thing last year. If anybody can learn from last year it is Rosen only and how to handle adversity - that's about it.

Rosen is our late 2nd round pick (almost as good as an early 3rd rounder). Now we have to see if he is worth further devevelopment. If he isn't we draft a QB. If he is we move on.

You can learn so much more about a QB (especially a young QB like Rosen) besides TDs and completitions and wins and losses. Incompletions? Did Josh place the ball good enough for the receiver to catch it? Was it a throw away? And if it was a throw away did it warrant a throw away? If he is in the pocket and the pocket collapses how does he handle that adversity? Does he just stand there like a statue like some QBs or is he stepping up in the pocket? Does he see his hot reads? Are they open? Should he have scrambled or run? His pre and post snap reads? Can he even read a defensive?

When coaches evaluate QBs they don't compare them to other QBs at any stage in their careers. They evaluate QBs on a learning curve they establish based on what they want from a young QB which is based on their offensive system and the players around him. And one thing I can tell you is that you learn more about a QB from a bad play or in adversity rather than when everything is perfect.

 

[bradmcnutt13]

I like Rosen, I would keep him and build around him,

but let's all be honest with ourselves

Brady has more energy when he's hung over & hasn't slept for 2 days than Rosen on his best day.

That's one of my biggest turnoffs with Rosen. I just don't get the feeling that he's really invested in being a great qb. You've got to put in some serious work if you want to be one of the elites and I just don't get the sense he cares about doing that.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

It is an interesting stat. I really do hope Rosen is given a fair chance, but it seems like a decision to draft a quarterback in the first round has already been made.

 

[phins_4_ever]

That's one of my biggest turnoffs with Rosen. I just don't get the feeling that he's really invested in being a great qb. You've got to put in some serious work if you want to be one of the elites and I just don't get the sense he cares about doing that.

That tops it all.

I mean seriously. Say he doesn't win enough. Say he doesn't throw enough TDs. Say he does throw too many INTs.
But please stop from trying to determine what goes on in his mind or how he approaches the game. You have no clue. Zero. Nill. Nada. That is pure 'hatred'/dislike toward Rosen. My goodness.

 

[phins_4_ever]

It is an interesting stat. I really do hope Rosen is given a fair chance, but it seems like a decision to draft a quarterback in the first round has already been made.

Why does everybody say that?