Is Miami Done Adding on the Offensive Line?

[Feverdream]

Most of the draft press thought Hayes would eventually move inside. His arms are very short and his athleticism is only average.

He seems to be a tough, hard-working type though... is said to have a mean streak, so I guess it could happen for him, but honestly... he looks like another Guard to me.

 

[GreenDolphinSt]

Now... if we do draft a WR, then we are left with the question of what kind of WR. Thus far, there's been two trains of thought.

Some of the brothers focus on guys who 'get separation', believing that 'these are the kind of guys that McD wants; or... 'these are the kind of guys who could step up if Hill or Waddle were injured'; or... 'Tua needs this type of receiver'.

But it's duplication, not expansion. Drafting yet another z type/y slot type gives us depth, but it doesn't change the offense. Another undersized WR and excitement, excitement, excitement! But no improvement really.

Then there are the brothers who want a different sort of receiver--a better large receiver, an X type who would help us now, in areas we are not good: Red zone and sideline.

Downside. Tua has not shown that he can use this sort of receiver. Our line may not be able to hold their blocks long enough to utilize a WR who takes longer to get open...

But this type of WR expands what we do... and change... well, it can be good.

Just some real good posting here...
Let me hypothesize. "McD has not shown that he can insert this kind of receiver into his offense." I don't think this is a lack of ability, knowledge, or experience. I think if (hypothetically) he was forced to use a big, X type receiver extensively, McD could do it. Probably pretty well, possibly with some innovative wrinkles. He's worked under or with a large variety of offensive minds, and he's been taking notes. If he was (hypothetically) forced to use some less mobile, more powerful offensive linemen, I think he could get it working well, in time. For both of these things, "well, it can be good." Yes it could.
I've said it before - I think there's a form of an ego problem here. Not a "I'm the boss, bow down to me" kind of ego thing- McD's the exact opposite of that. But I think deep down, under his nice, player first, I'm here to serve personality (which is genuine), he IS a young ,smart alecky, Ivy League grad. I know the type well. He's smarter than everyone else, and he's gonna outsmart and outscheme - every season, every game, every quarter, every play -short yardage and goal to go included. I really like Coach McD. I'm a 50 year plus Phin fan, and he's the 1st HC I kinda identify with. (Of course I cheered for all of them) But I'm worried - it's just too all in on Mike.
Bringing it back - I think drafting a large X type WR......and/or 1 or 2 talented, somewhat more power based OL could be a really good thing.

 

[MrClean]

Most of the draft press thought Hayes would eventually move inside. His arms are very short and his athleticism is only average.

He seems to be a tough, hard-working type though... is said to have a mean streak, so I guess it could happen for him, but honestly... he looks like another Guard to me.

32.5" arms, so most likely OG or possibly RT. Barton's arms are 32 7/8" so not much different, and likely moving him inside too. What Hayes on the hoof looked like to me is technically sound, easy mover in the open field, gets a hat on a hat, works well to sustain, and usually succeeds.

 

[djphinfan]

32.5" arms, so most likely OG or possibly RT. Barton's arms are 32 7/8" so not much different, and likely moving him inside too. What Hayes on the hoof looked like to me is technically sound, easy mover in the open field, gets a hat on a hat, works well to sustain, and usually succeeds.

Imo he had a solid first rookie training camp, I would go down to the goal posts and watch them closely, he was balanced with solid footwork and upper body posture relative to being a 7th round pick of course

 

[Danny]

Do you really want to take a guard in the first round? I get it. If Miami can't trade down in that scenario they will have to take someone at 21. I just don't think JPJ is in play for Miami after signing Brewer. Barton makes a little more sense because of his versatility, but I don't believe he can play tackle at the NFL level. And for the record, I like Jordan Morgan more than Barton anyway.

what I want is to take OL that can start on day one.....I used to never want to take an OG or Center with our top pick but right now guard is our weakest spot on our weakest unit.....again, my ideal is Fautanu who can play both guard and tackle.....Barton can too but he'll be a better guard than tackle........in 2025 when we have 11 picks including 3 picks in the 3rd round then we can draft an OT to replace Armstead who's probably gone by then.

 

[rickd13]

Now... if we do draft a WR, then we are left with the question of what kind of WR. Thus far, there's been two trains of thought.

Some of the brothers focus on guys who 'get separation', believing that 'these are the kind of guys that McD wants; or... 'these are the kind of guys who could step up if Hill or Waddle were injured'; or... 'Tua needs this type of receiver'.

But it's duplication, not expansion. Drafting yet another z type/y slot type gives us depth, but it doesn't change the offense. Another undersized WR and excitement, excitement, excitement! But no improvement really.

Then there are the brothers who want a different sort of receiver--a better large receiver, an X type who would help us now, in areas we are not good: Red zone and sideline.

Downside. Tua has not shown that he can use this sort of receiver. McD has not shown that he can insert this kind of receiver into his offense. Our line may not be able to hold their blocks long enough to utilize a WR who takes longer to get open...

But this type of WR expands what we do... and change... well, it can be good.

I think McDaniel is possibly looking for a WR/TE. He kept Gesicki around in his first season and he has brought in a lot of those types of guys as developmental prospects and, the one move that really tipped his hand to me, is the trade for Chase Claypool. I also get the feeling that McDaniel is really interested in Ja’Tavion Sanders from Texas. So, maybe it’s not a pure 3rd receiver in a traditional sense that we all think of that he is looking for. I know you, and many others are going to shoot back at this post with, that is what Jonnu Smith is for. That may be true and may satisfy McDaniel’s quest. Because of Smith, now maybe McDaniel pivots in what he is looking for by finding a depth replacement to take snaps while Hill or Waddle are out of the game or happen to get hurt.

 

[rickd13]

Btw... I looked up the year 2000 stats for 'the greatest show on turf'... and the 3rd receiver was...

Marshall Faulk.

Yeah. We, or at least I, tend to overlook Achane as that possible “third” weapon in the passing game.

 

[rickd13]

After we drafted him, I went back and studied Hayes at UM, and he looked really good. I think he moves well enough to be ideal in the wide zone. He was good value as a 7th rounder. I saw him rated as a 3rd/4th before the draft.

Yeah, I’ve been beating the drum about him since the day he was drafted. I was surprised when he was cut before the season started, but he was caught in a numbers game with other more experienced tackles already on the roster.

 

[rickd13]

what I want is to take OL that can start on day one.....I used to never want to take an OG or Center with our top pick but right now guard is our weakest spot on our weakest unit.....again, my ideal is Fautanu who can play both guard and tackle.....Barton can too but he'll be a better guard than tackle........in 2025 when we have 11 picks including 3 picks in the 3rd round then we can draft an OT to replace Armstead who's probably gone by then.

I get it, but if you look at what Grier has done with his first round picks, I find it hard to believe he will draft a guard in the first round. I think the only time he has ever taken a non-premier position in the first round, is when he took Christian Wilkins.

 

[rickd13]

Most of the draft press thought Hayes would eventually move inside. His arms are very short and his athleticism is only average.

He seems to be a tough, hard-working type though... is said to have a mean streak, so I guess it could happen for him, but honestly... he looks like another Guard to me.

I’m not sure how he tested, but he sure looked athletic enough to me when I looked at him play.

 

[rickd13]

Btw... I looked up the year 2000 stats for 'the greatest show on turf'... and the 3rd receiver was...

Marshall Faulk.

They had some depth at the WR position though. They had Az Hakim and Ricky Proehl on their roster.

 

[Danny]

I get it, but if you look at what Grier has done with his first round picks, I find it hard to believe he will draft a guard in the first round. I think the only time he has ever taken a non-premier position in the first round, is when he took Christian Wilkins.

I understand that too.....I want value.....normally with our top pick I'd want QB/WR/Edge/CB but right now our weakest link is OL, specially IOL but I know the team will probably do the opposite of what I think they should do....lol

 

[TXFinFan]

 

[NoblePhin]

Yeah, I’ve been beating the drum about him since the day he was drafted. I was surprised when he was cut before the season started, but he was caught in a numbers game with other more experienced tackles already on the roster.

I thought he had a good preseason as well, hopefully he sticks this time.

 

[Prince Flipper]

Doesn't taking the BPA usually help your team more than reaching for a lesser player? Wouldn't you rather have a veteran guard or tackle than a prospect who hasn't spent a lot of time at those positions, which is probably what you're going to get if you force a draft pick to fill a need.

Your line that "I'm not convinced the early season performance was more than a fluke and the injuries aren't going away" is interesting. How do you know the early season performance was a fluke? Are we all just supposed to be conditioned to think the OL sucks and will always suck? You can't fill the whole line with high picks and expensive free agents. You can't draft Amarius Mims and say, OK, he can play any position but center so we're good. It seemed that Butch Barry did a really good job coaching a line that went through many different combos last year. I think the holdover linemen will be better in their second year with Barry and although I think you're right that the left side of our line will miss games, we just don't know. all I know is that I'm glad we still have Wynn and Armstead. If they both give us 10-12 games, we'll have to find players to fill in when they're out, its what every team does.
I don't want to see another season where guys like Eli Apple or Duke Riley have to play in big games, or any games. I don't want to see a 5th rounder coming off the edge because we don't have any other options. I don't want to see Braxton Berrios failing to get open on third down in a key spot.
How does DT get settled elsewhere? what does that mean? I see many more options for Miami in the first two rounds to make our DL and team better than forcing an OL in rounds 1 or 2. Sounds like you're on board with both picks being OL.

and it's not a pain taking OL with your first and second round picks, its just bad drafting and roster management.

The wouldn't you rather have a veteran line is confusing because that seems like you're dismissing the value of all rookies.

Doesn't taking the BPA usually help your team more than reaching for a lesser player? Wouldn't you rather have a veteran guard or tackle than a prospect who hasn't spent a lot of time at those positions, which is probably what you're going to get if you force a draft pick to fill a need.

Your line that "I'm not convinced the early season performance was more than a fluke and the injuries aren't going away" is interesting. How do you know the early season performance was a fluke? Are we all just supposed to be conditioned to think the OL sucks and will always suck? You can't fill the whole line with high picks and expensive free agents. You can't draft Amarius Mims and say, OK, he can play any position but center so we're good. It seemed that Butch Barry did a really good job coaching a line that went through many different combos last year. I think the holdover linemen will be better in their second year with Barry and although I think you're right that the left side of our line will miss games, we just don't know. all I know is that I'm glad we still have Wynn and Armstead. If they both give us 10-12 games, we'll have to find players to fill in when they're out, its what every team does.
I don't want to see another season where guys like Eli Apple or Duke Riley have to play in big games, or any games. I don't want to see a 5th rounder coming off the edge because we don't have any other options. I don't want to see Braxton Berrios failing to get open on third down in a key spot.
How does DT get settled elsewhere? what does that mean? I see many more options for Miami in the first two rounds to make our DL and team better than forcing an OL in rounds 1 or 2. Sounds like you're on board with both picks being OL.

and it's not a pain taking OL with your first and second round picks, its just bad drafting and roster management.

Good questions. So BPA is good from a position of strength which I wish we were at but we're not. The o line is too critical to pass up a chance to fix. We added a center who looks decent but he's got issues pass blocking. Also eich is still starting...

BPA also doesn't always take into account minor differences in play level. Yes it's a bad idea to take a player who is second round tier just to meet a need, but I think it's fine to meet a need by drafting a first round tier guy over a slightly better first round tier guy who fails to meet as big a need.

And yes I think the o line was a fluke last year. The line performed against bad teams but the offense went inert against good ones. Answering that question is challenging... i think we relied on Tuas quck release and the speed of tyreek to cover up the lines flaws. Run blocking was good when armstead was healthy... but we csnt rely on that. Obvious pass situations were a huge problem though and led to a very sorry 3rd down success rate. Again our new center has pass prot issues, there arent good options in fa. There are first round tier iol guys. We need a pass game. So yeah two o line guys sounds good to me.