Is the Front Office Competant? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Is the Front Office Competant?

Looking back one year ago, I can honestly say that I thought Lamar would have an even BETTER season than he did in 2000. He was 5 lbs lighter. And he was looking great in training camp. But because he doesn't possess great speed/agility and vision, he's more dependent on his line than some other RBs.

But back to my original point. Lamar never gave us any reason to doubt him other than he had his breakout season in his 7th(?) year.
 
Actually to tell you the truth I think JJ had the right idea. There were no pro bowl linemen in Dallas before there was Emmitt Smith. Emmitt is one of the best RBs in NFL history you really can't take that away from him.

But it was good for Wanny to draft us a RT in the 2nd round because we didnt have ourselves a solid runningback. We had the crap left over from the JJ era plus the new unknown addition of Lamar Smith who wasn't counted on to do much of anything.

The bottom line with JJs runningbacks is he COULD have drafted a good runningback that would have made our OL look good and get more confidence in themselves as run blockers. He just kept choosing the wrong god damned runningback! John Avery, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, JJ Johnson, Cecil Collins....none of them managed to make it with any other team (except good ole Diesel who will never find out).

Now that we've got Ricky Williams I'd be very surprised if Wanny drafts a first round OL...except maybe a stud LT to protect his QB's blindside which is something even JJ would have considered doing.
 
For sake of argument, lets assume that cutting DG was the right move: his back is deteriorating badly for years, he is a bad influence on the other players, etc. Why did they give him the superstar contract? They had the most intimate knowledge of this guy, his talent, his physical condition, his personality, yet they gave him this huge contract. I just don't get it. Either way they come off looking like idiots.

Now we end up with a true head case in Ricky Williams - everyone is acting like his stats last year are money in the bank this year when our offensive line is poor, especially compared to the one he ran behind last year in NO. I agree that Lamar Smith should have had a great year last season - he was a quality guy and was productive behind a suspect line in 2000. The line last year was even worse - now we have a headcase trying to run behind it.
 
Steve, as a fan of NO posted here ( I would look for the post but I don't have that kinda time or energy) NO o-line was NOT that good last year, and they were over hyped. Thier o-line was maybe a little better them ours. And I will take this "headcase" over almost any RB any day. And I don't understand why people call him injury pron?? DG is injury pron (bad back that keeps on reacuring) as far as I know RW had 2 different injuries, and played in all 16 games last year. Football is a contact sport and poop happens, it just pooped on RW 2 years in a row.

And for the o-line JJ got lucky in Dallas by drafting mid - low rd o-line and felt he could do the same here. I belive there was an artical a few years ago stating something like JJ will not draft an o-lineman with a high draft pick due to his success with drafting low rd o-lineman.

IMHO Wanny and Spielman have done a very good job. I think most of our cap fears will go unfounded, and will be in good shape in the future.
 
Originally posted by ckparrothead
Actually to tell you the truth I think JJ had the right idea. There were no pro bowl linemen in Dallas before there was Emmitt Smith. Emmitt is one of the best RBs in NFL history you really can't take that away from him.

But it was good for Wanny to draft us a RT in the 2nd round because we didnt have ourselves a solid runningback. We had the crap left over from the JJ era plus the new unknown addition of Lamar Smith who wasn't counted on to do much of anything.

The bottom line with JJs runningbacks is he COULD have drafted a good runningback that would have made our OL look good and get more confidence in themselves as run blockers. He just kept choosing the wrong god damned runningback! John Avery, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, JJ Johnson, Cecil Collins....none of them managed to make it with any other team (except good ole Diesel who will never find out).

Now that we've got Ricky Williams I'd be very surprised if Wanny drafts a first round OL...except maybe a stud LT to protect his QB's blindside which is something even JJ would have considered doing.
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I think what realy made a big difference also to go along with injuries was the changed of Offensive line coach.Now he coaches Panthers Offensive line and they were much better offensive line last year...
 
Originally posted by steve_t
For sake of argument, lets assume that cutting DG was the right move: his back is deteriorating badly for years, he is a bad influence on the other players, etc. Why did they give him the superstar contract? They had the most intimate knowledge of this guy, his talent, his physical condition, his personality, yet they gave him this huge contract. I just don't get it. Either way they come off looking like idiots.

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Actually ... the "huge" contract was signed prior to his problems surfacing... sorry,but nobody in the Front office ahs a crystal ball, and could have forseen it coming.

Originally posted by steve_t
I agree that Lamar Smith should have had a great year last season - he was a quality guy and was productive behind a suspect line in 2000. The line last year was even worse - now we have a headcase trying to run behind it.
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How was the OL "suspect" in 2000? I think lamar had a pretty damn good line that year... all healthy.. and is probably why he did so well - and so poorly when that line was banged up in 2001. The OL in NO was just a little better than horrible last year, and RW had his best season ever... the reason that OL was so "over hyped" was in fact due to Ricky. Now this year, we have a few concerns on the OL, but not sure if I'd call it "suspect" or even the same line as last year.. assuming Spriggs, Smith and Dixon return to form... its loking as good, if not better than 2000..
 
I don't get all this talk about the NO line being bad last year. Teams were waiting in line to grab their players as free agents (Roaf, Naole, Price, etc) and sign them to decent contracts. And if it was the case of Ricky making the line look good, then why get rid of him? It just does not add up. Minus makes a good point - the loss of a good offensive line coach is anohter bad move by the Fins "brain trust."

DG has always had back problems, even in highschool. He was such a great physical speciman that he could compensate for it until last year when it really started bothering him. He was primed to come back strong this year from what I had heard. The work-outs that he missed were not that big of a deal to have other players sniping at him. Wann-Speil had plenty of time to assess his back and his personality, and they came to the conclusion that he was a good risk. Now they do a double-take when a couple of guys go public with their opinions - thoughts that they should have kept to themselves. The front office lost control of the situation from what I can see.
 
INTERGALATIC BATTLE

Originally posted by steve_t
I thought that it was obvious after their first training camp that Madison, Surtain, Taylor, Gardner, Rodgers, Thomas would be great players. Taylor was very good right out of the box as was Madison, Gardner, and Rogers. It may have taken some time for the rest of the league to recognize it but the fans down here sure did. I can't say that about Greenwood, Fletcher, Freeman etc. - these guys have a long way to go. Even some guys that were lower picks gave us some good seasons right away like Wooden and Burton. There is the point to be made that JJ did not do well spotting offensive talent while he was here, but don't forget that he has NOT been here for three drafts, so he could have perhaps made some in-roads on that side of the ball during that time. This latest episode with Gardner has really soured me on Wann-Speil - they lost control of the team and couldn't keep the stars from back-stabbing each other. Now we have to pay the price. DG was the most important player on the defense and made everyone look better.
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Wann-Speil took control of the team by kicking DG off. You're spinning this into a negitive, I mean how do we know that JT and ZT did'nt go to DG first. Maybe the Klingon told them to F--K off. I don't know, do you? As far as back-stabbing goes I don't have any problems with going to your boss about one of your co-workers slacking off or dishing out to much crap. I mean ZT and JT are suppose to be team/locker room leaders right? One week before training camp and this was the last straw. DG would not return numerous phone calls from his boss, he even had Dave's personal cell phone# for Christ sake. Do I have to Speil it out? HeHeHe. It took balls big brass balls from the FO to cut him and I for one applaude them. Will you join me ? Don't worry about DG, the last I heard was that the Borg were closing in on Planet Klingon and Warf err I mean DG was on his way there to do battle. IT IS A GREAT DAY TO DIE!!!!. :evil:
 
the bottom line is this: j.j. never won 11 games with his players while in miami...dave has done it twice...and he got 2 playmakers on offense: ricky williams and chris chambers...j.j. also wrecked the end of marinos career...wanny also doesnt have an ego...why do you think j.j. cut most of shulas guys...im very happy with wanny as our head coach...
 
Originally posted by steve_t
He was primed to come back strong this year from what I had heard. The work-outs that he missed were not that big of a deal to have other players sniping at him. Wann-Speil had plenty of time to assess his back and his personality, and they came to the conclusion that he was a good risk. Now they do a double-take when a couple of guys go public with their opinions - thoughts that they should have kept to themselves. The front office lost control of the situation from what I can see.
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Where did you get that info? From everything I've heard... DG was NOT in top form in minicamp... had stopped seeing the personal trainer for his back... and while "voluntary", the workouts were a part of his contract, AND show a players commitment to the team...
IMHO.. the front office just TOOK control of a situation that was going from bad to worse.


Also.. if the Saints OL was so good... then why did they let them all go in the first place??
 
JD13 - I'm not knocking Wanny's game day coaching - just the front office decisions. If JJ had not cut Shula's dead wood that was here when he came in, we would not have half the all-stars that we have right know. We all loved Dan Marino, but the fact is that he had a chance to win the bing one and could not get it done. He was over the hill when JJ got here and was kept on almost as a favor to the ownership. I am convinced that if JJ did not burn out we would have won another superbowl. JJ laid the foundation for this team - I hope Wann-Speil does not screw it up completely.
 
I agree with Den. This was the last straw. When the team captains come to the coach about getting a player out, you know that something has been wrong for a while.

Daryl Gardener was a bully. And word has it that he was exremely tough on the rookies. Way beyond hazing. And I remember Denny telling us a few stories of how DG disrespected his teammates. I mean, what kind of a man starts a fist fight on the practice field with O.J McDuffie, a guy who's 8 inches and 130 smaller than you?? And it's not like O.J. was suited up or anything. O.J. was like a coach out there.

Steve, like Den said, you're acting like none of Daryl's teammates EVER came to him or talked to him. Well, I simply CANNOT believe such a thing to be true. And team captains SHOULD NOT keep their thoughts to themselves. Especially when team unity and chemistry are at stake.

You're right, the workouts he missed probably aren't enough to have the player's sniping at him and calling for his release. IT WAS MUCH MORE THAN THAT.

Finally, you mention the whole contract thing. The Dolphins were justified in giving DG all that money and believing he'd be a cornerstone for years to come back in 2000. Here are a few things you should consider:

*Before the 2000 season, Daryl Gardener had never missed a game. While he did miss 5 starts (4 as a rookie, 1 in 3 subsequent years) he still played in every contest. So durability was not an issue.

*Gardener was a dominant force inside the previous 2 years.
In 1999, team's averaged only 3.6 ypc and scored a TOTAL of 6 rushing TDs against us. In 1998, it was 3.7 ypc and 6 TDs. He and Bowens looked like a formidable tag team for years to come.

*Gardener was not the same character he is now. He worked hard and was IN CHECK because of Jimmy. After he got the big contract from Dave, he changed.

I don't care how you try and spin this thing Steve, Daryl Gardener had to go. Wanny and his teammates gave him every chance in the world. Gardener did this to himself.
 
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Muck makes a good point: JJ was a guy who could keep guys like DG in check. Wann-Spiel done not seem to have a clue as to how to go about it. The history of the league is filled with guys like DG - guys that have been injured but came back just as strong, guys whose personalities clashed with everyone else but were worth accomodating because of their superior play, guys that went through personal strife and put it behind them. Wann-Spiel COULD NOT EVEN WAIT UNTILL TRAINING CAMP OFFICIALLY STARTED? That, to me, is when you see where things are at, not a week before. When you make the kind of investment in a player that THEY made, its just plain crazy to pull the plug before camp even begins.
 
You're misunderstanding me a bit. Jimmy was the first NFL coach he ever had. And you just don't cross the man who brought you in. Dave did everything he could. It's not his fault that DG decided to become an azzhole. You have to consider that Daryl Gardener was not getting paid the way he is now when Jimmy was around. Complacency had not set in. He knew that Jimmy would cut his azz if he had to because he could. Dave couldn't cut Gardener. His contract was too big. Gardener knew this and took advantage of it.

You're way off base dude. It is exremely important that we go into camp with the right chemistry and attitude in place. For the players, cutting Gardener is like going into camp with a breath of fresh air and a renewed positive atmosphere. You saw what the Herald said. Tim Bowens used to be DG's best friend. Now Timbo can't stand him. How would you feel about working three feet away from a former best friend who you now dispise?? Think it might cause some problems??

You say we should have waited. Hell, this crap has been going on for two years. We don't need any more distractions. We need to focused from the get go.
 
THATS OUTLANDISH!!

Originally posted by steve_t
Muck makes a good point: JJ was a guy who could keep guys like DG in check. Wann-Spiel done not seem to have a clue as to how to go about it. The history of the league is filled with guys like DG - guys that have been injured but came back just as strong, guys whose personalities clashed with everyone else but were worth accomodating because of their superior play, guys that went through personal strife and put it behind them. Wann-Spiel COULD NOT EVEN WAIT UNTILL TRAINING CAMP OFFICIALLY STARTED? That, to me, is when you see where things are at, not a week before. When you make the kind of investment in a player that THEY made, its just plain crazy to pull the plug before camp even begins.
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So Wann-Spiel don't have a clue huh, gee I wonder how they ever made it this far in the NFL? I think they kept him in check long enough. Don't kid yourself, JJ and Wanni-Speil are that different. The difference being that Wanni-Spiel will give a player enough rope to hang himself vs JJ who would cut you for trying to pet ButterCup. When you pay a player the kind of money you do Warf you should not have to baby sit him. I hear Warf missed practices because he spent to much time on the Holodeck as a member of the 72 Dolphins. Yes even in 72 he was doubled and tripled team which gave Nick Bonicotti room to roam. There is no honor in that.
 
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