B/c he was a backup on a title team that clinches it? When he was Miami's best player on very good teams in the late 90s-early '00s he never came close to a Championship. he's a good complimentary player, he's not a star- star's are HOFers.
Is Zo a hall of famer?
- Thread starter TerryTate
- Start date
B/c he was a backup on a title team that clinches it? When he was Miami's best player on very good teams in the late 90s-early '00s he never came close to a Championship. he's a good complimentary player, he's not a star- star's are HOFers.
Enforcerfin33
Los Lonely Boys the Return....
He Back ups Shaq....ANYONE would back up Shaq, he's not a back up, because hes not good.And there are quite a few times when Zo is put on the court at crunch time and Shaq sits on the bench, not really "back-up" like.
Section126
FinHeaven VIP
He played the final 5 minutes in every game against the Nets...and then he outplayed SHAQ int he finals.
He was a chief contributor. Not a "complimentary" player.
Why couldn't he win when he was the best player on his team?
Section126
FinHeaven VIP
Because Tim Hardaway was not Wade..and Mashburn..was a straight up choke artist.
Those Heat teams ran into a team that had their number in the Knicks. Then they had to deal with one of the alltime great teams in the Bulls. That's why.
This Heat team had to deal with the overrated Pistons and a typical Western COnference team that had lapses on Defense and married outside shooting.
Simply put...this heat team had it much easier.
The Bulls were done after 1998- they ran into the Bulls ONCE. They had top teams from '99-'01 and dind't even make a conf finals in that time. The only rason they made one conf finals was b/c half the Knick team was suspended and the knicks weren't a great team.
Enforcerfin33
Los Lonely Boys the Return....
You mean the Knicks that went to the Finals, right? They weren't any good?
Roman529
Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew
NO. I think Zo is a Hall of Famer as a person but not as a basketball player...Zo is a great guy and a great inspiration but he's not one of the all time greats. Unfortunately the NBA Hall of Fame is pretty watered down when it comes to inducting so-called greats, unlike baseball where only the truely deserving get in.
Section126
FinHeaven VIP
They met the Bulls twice really...
I will take them one at a time...to refresh your memory.
in 1996...ZO's first year here...it was ZO and nobody else for the whole year till a heat trade that brought Hardaway along.(Walt Williams, Chris Gatling..get the picture?) they met DA BULLS...3-0 int eh first round. That was the weakest of heat teams to come.
in 1997....DA BULLS...4-1 in the ECF...Zo averaged 17.8 ppg...that was one helluva heat team. They were 61-21. They ran into one of the best teams of all-time.
in 1998...lose 3-2 int he 1st round to the knicks...Zo gets suspended for game 5 against the Knicks. The Infamous Alan Houston game. Zo averaged 19.3 ppg for the playoffs.
in 1999...Tim Hardaway twisted his ankle the last week of the season and was hobbled the whole series to the point that he had his worst playoff series ever (9.0 ppg). ZO ont he other hand averaged 21.6 ppg and played very well throughout. That was the infamous...coming out party for Jamal Mashburn as a complete choker.
in 2000...they swept the Pistons int he first round...and lost in 7 games to the Knicks in the second round. ZO again averaged 21.6 ppg for the entire playoffs....this time Hardaway tore ligaments in his ankle and was forced to sit out games versus the Knicks....while putting up a paltry 7.7 ppg on one leg...seeing a trend?
in 2001...that is when he was diagnosed with his problem...he came back for the last 13 games of the season and the playoffs. He was a shell of his former self and it was sad to see him struggle to get up and down the court. It turned out that he had no business coming back that early.
in 2002...out...kidney transplant time.
BTW..in those years...he averaged higher numbers in every offensive category in the postseason than he did int he regular season.
You can't carry losers like Mashburn and the then all of a sudden gimpy Hardaway every year.
When you see the difference..it is stark. Last years heat team had Problem child Antoine Walker scoring 13 points and pulling down 10 rebounds in the 3rd quarter of Game 6 vs. the Mavs. it had guys like Posey, and Payton both hit game winning shots during the playoffs. J-Will have a 10-10 performance going in game 6 vs. the Pistons, Haslem playing out of his mind against Dirk...and then of course......ZO being a defensive force with Wade and SHAQ making it all possible. HUGE MASSIVE GARGANTUAN DIFFERENCE. Last year's Heat had guys with balls.
Anything pre-98 I can throw away Championship wise but they only made 1 conf final and that was b/c half the Knick team was suspended. In '99 they had the top seed and LOST in rd 1, the next year they losta agin to an inferior Knicks team. I don't care what happened to hardaway, he played they should have won. In 2 straight years the Knicks won in a deciding game on the home court of the Heat by a point. A true big time player wouldn't let that happen.
Zo was the leader of all those choking teams, why did those teams not have balls? The heat won last year b/c of wade not b/c of balls.
'Zo averaged 3 PPG, 3 Rebs a game and 1 b;ock a game- do you really think he was the difference? You don't think they would have won w/o him? he was better in '05 and they lost.
Zo was the leader of all those choking teams, why did those teams not have balls? The heat won last year b/c of wade not b/c of balls.
'Zo averaged 3 PPG, 3 Rebs a game and 1 b;ock a game- do you really think he was the difference? You don't think they would have won w/o him? he was better in '05 and they lost.
No they weren't good, they got roasted in the Finals. They were an 8 seed for a reason but in the post Bulls era there weren't any great teams in the East so it was wide open.
Enforcerfin33
Los Lonely Boys the Return....
Your just not going to give up on this are you?
COMEBACKRICKY
Superbowl MVP
Section126
FinHeaven VIP
"A true big time player wouldn't have let that happen?" How does he NOT let that happen? Houston hit a runner in the lane after Mashburn almost threw up on the other end. He played well in those games..
BTW..he didn't play in one of those deciding games. Of course..you didn't mention that. He had 29 points, 13 rebounds and 5 blocks. In Game 7 in 2000 vs. the Knicks in round 2. Good enough for you?
As for last year...those numbers lie a little bit. He was coming back from his torn calf muscle and he missed the first 3 games of the Bulls series..and then played 10 minutes and 4 minutes in that series.
He played 7 minutes in game 1 against the Nets.
10 minutes in game 2.
11 in game 3.
12 in game 4.
Here is the Key...He closed out the games.
In game 5 (The deciding game) He played 21 minutes...he had 11 points on 4-4 with 4 rebounds, 2 steals and a block off the bench.
Against the Pistons he averaged 9 minutes per game as SHAQ was just too dominant against them, Riley tends to play the hot guy long minutes. That series was such a blow out that there was really no important minutes to be had.
Then we move on to the finals...5 minutes in game 1, 11 points and 4 rebounds with 1 block in game 2 in 20 minutes. 9 minutes in game 3. Game 4, was a blow out for the Heat..ZO had 11 points, 6 rebounds and 3 blocks. In game 5, he was limited to 4 minutes due to the Mavs going with their small lineup for the first time in the series. (Harris/Terry backcourt)
Then came game 6, he played 14 minutes....but scored 8 points, had 6 rebounds and 5 blocks. He triggered our run in that game from 13 down to 2 ahead. he helped us put it away in the 3rd quarter really with his defense.
When he was asked...he delivered.
I ran down his "failures" on those Heat teams, you just blindly insist it was his fault when it clearly wasn't.
The only fault I can see, is his fight that led to his suspension for the deciding game against he Knicks in 1998.
If you compare the teams..it is rather funny. Just look at teh boxscores. It was ZO and nobody else.
Last year's heat had people pop up over and over with big games. How can you forget Antoine Walker tearing the Nets apart? Or Posey popping off every once and a while..or Haslem with his big performances? J-Will with a 10-10 performance against the pistons in Game 6?
Section126
FinHeaven VIP
Yeah...Ewing and Latrell Sprewell missing 13 games each in a 50 game season (shortened season) had something to do with it.