james Walker: Dolphins OTA notes | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

james Walker: Dolphins OTA notes

Seems like Thomas got the fire that he needed.

---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 PM ----------
sinPHIN said:
landry will be our returner this year. I just don't see thigpen making the cut
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No way man we need him moving the chains.
 
LDaniel7 said:
The ONLY way WR is stacked is with possession WRs.

Wallace -- 4.3 legit. Only true playmaker WR on roster (jury out on Landry)
Hartline -- 4.6 (closer to a 4.6 in pads than a 4.5 and plays much weaker than one might think)
Landry -- 4.6+ in pads (more quickness than Hartline but even slower downfield)
Matthews -- 4.55 slowfoot. Better body control than Hartline, but cannot make plays downfield consistently.
Binns -- 4.55 and limited, but w. decent size. Has the potential to be a redzone threat -- and perhaps more potential as number 2 than Hartline. Still not a true threat downfield, though.
Gibson -- 4.6 w. decent quickness but zero threat downfield.

Slowest stable of WRs in the NFL, across the board. And limitations for each WR.

One true playmaker as of right now.

LD
p.s. and this in a league where 4.5 is considered marginal for a CB. Which means that most of the time Miami's WRs are lining up against defenders quicker and more talented than them.
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Since when does speed make you great? Look at Oakland who have notoriously always had fast WR's, how has their WR core been the past few years? 40 time is useless seriously. Other than a fly route when does a WR just take off in a straight line? I would rather have people that move the chains and had solid hands then speed and questionable hands. EX) Ted Ginn.
 
LDaniel7 said:
The ONLY way WR is stacked is with possession WRs.

Wallace -- 4.3 legit. Only true playmaker WR on roster (jury out on Landry)
Hartline -- 4.6 (closer to a 4.6 in pads than a 4.5 and plays much weaker than one might think)
Landry -- 4.6+ in pads (more quickness than Hartline but even slower downfield)
Matthews -- 4.55 slowfoot. Better body control than Hartline, but cannot make plays downfield consistently.
Binns -- 4.55 and limited, but w. decent size. Has the potential to be a redzone threat -- and perhaps more potential as number 2 than Hartline. Still not a true threat downfield, though.
Gibson -- 4.6 w. decent quickness but zero threat downfield.

Slowest stable of WRs in the NFL, across the board. And limitations for each WR.

One true playmaker as of right now.



LD
p.s. and this in a league where 4.5 is considered marginal for a CB. Which means that most of the time Miami's WRs are lining up against defenders quicker and more talented than them.
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Stop just stop..
0 downfield threat means he has never made plays down the field his 4th down vs the ravens counts as does the deep ball he got over carroll the year before.
There are ways to get open other than 4.3 speed.

Where did you get the defenders are more talented.. Just because they are faster? Where does this logic come from..
If thats not what you meant than dont say it..
If it is what you meant...
No
 
BlueFin said:
I personally don't want to see Jarvis Landry returning kicks...It may sound crazy and way to premature at this point...and yes it is for those that want to chastise me...but I think Jarvis Landry is going to become a great receiver with the hands he has...I don't want to see his career ruined by returning kicks.
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If Thiggy is gone I could see Miller returning kicks.
 
Didn't Matthews return kicks and punts at Nevada? If he's on the bubble, I would really like to see how he can perform there first
 
I agree that Thigpen doesn't offer much, but that's still more than what Daniel Thomas gives. Hopefully the UDFAs or Gillislee show some promise, or we pick up a back that's been cut.
 
carjackistan said:
I agree that Thigpen doesn't offer much, but that's still more than what Daniel Thomas gives. Hopefully the UDFAs or Gillislee show some promise, or we pick up a back that's been cut.
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Thigpen is not a RB. This is about Thigpen being a return man which hejust isn't anymore. By that I mean he hasn't shown much lately and even at running back he isn't an option. I think it will be all Miller and Moreno this year.
 
LDaniel7 said:
The ONLY way WR is stacked is with possession WRs.

Wallace -- 4.3 legit. Only true playmaker WR on roster (jury out on Landry)
Hartline -- 4.6 (closer to a 4.6 in pads than a 4.5 and plays much weaker than one might think)
Landry -- 4.6+ in pads (more quickness than Hartline but even slower downfield)
Matthews -- 4.55 slowfoot. Better body control than Hartline, but cannot make plays downfield consistently.
Binns -- 4.55 and limited, but w. decent size. Has the potential to be a redzone threat -- and perhaps more potential as number 2 than Hartline. Still not a true threat downfield, though.
Gibson -- 4.6 w. decent quickness but zero threat downfield.

Slowest stable of WRs in the NFL, across the board. And limitations for each WR.

One true playmaker as of right now.

LD
p.s. and this in a league where 4.5 is considered marginal for a CB. Which means that most of the time Miami's WRs are lining up against defenders quicker and more talented than them.
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Now I hear what your saying, and I agree in principle with some of it, but is this a "belief" or "fact"? Do you have the times for other teams for their top 5?

Also, 4.5 is the CB speed, but NOT IN PADS. You reference the speeds "in pads". Please don't mix the two in the same paragraph...it just confuses things; unless, the delineation is clear...
 
LDaniel7 said:
The ONLY way WR is stacked is with possession WRs.

Wallace -- 4.3 legit. Only true playmaker WR on roster (jury out on Landry)
Hartline -- 4.6 (closer to a 4.6 in pads than a 4.5 and plays much weaker than one might think)
Landry -- 4.6+ in pads (more quickness than Hartline but even slower downfield)
Matthews -- 4.55 slowfoot. Better body control than Hartline, but cannot make plays downfield consistently.
Binns -- 4.55 and limited, but w. decent size. Has the potential to be a redzone threat -- and perhaps more potential as number 2 than Hartline. Still not a true threat downfield, though.
Gibson -- 4.6 w. decent quickness but zero threat downfield.

Slowest stable of WRs in the NFL, across the board. And limitations for each WR.

One true playmaker as of right now.

LD
p.s. and this in a league where 4.5 is considered marginal for a CB. Which means that most of the time Miami's WRs are lining up against defenders quicker and more talented than them.
Click to expand...

Good god I'm tired of you bringing up 40 times. It's getting really old. Yes, speed is a great asset to have but it's not everything like you think. And Landry ran faster than his combine time at his pro day (injured himself at the combine) I think if you had your way we would have Ted Ginn and Clyde Gates over Hartline and Gibson/Landry

Edit- I guess I didn't need to reply after venturing onto page 4 of this. Dr. Phin brings up excellent points. I'd like to see the speed of every other teams receivers since we are "THE slowest"
 
Dr. Phin said:
Now I hear what your saying, and I agree in principle with some of it, but is this a "belief" or "fact"? Do you have the times for other teams for their top 5?

Also, 4.5 is the CB speed, but NOT IN PADS. You reference the speeds "in pads". Please don't mix the two in the same paragraph...it just confuses things; unless, the delineation is clear...
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Agreed on your second point, not to blur the categories. That said, my point still stands: 4.5 (out of pads) is considered marginal for starting CBs. And our WRs (out of pads) are considerably slower than that.

On your first point, I didn't run the top 5 WRs from every team -- so I shouldn't have said slowest in the league. I was comparing Miami w. playoff teams and top teams in our division. Which we don't compare, even w. Wallace. IF Wallace goes down, we're hurting big time.

LD

---------- Post added at 03:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:32 AM ----------
Travis34 said:
Good god I'm tired of you bringing up 40 times. It's getting really old. Yes, speed is a great asset to have but it's not everything like you think. And Landry ran faster than his combine time at his pro day (injured himself at the combine) I think if you had your way we would have Ted Ginn and Clyde Gates over Hartline and Gibson/Landry

Edit- I guess I didn't need to reply after venturing onto page 4 of this. Dr. Phin brings up excellent points. I'd like to see the speed of every other teams receivers since we are "THE slowest"
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See my reply above. I was comparing us mostly to playoff teams and top teams in our division. Shouldn't have said slowest in league w.o definites on top 4 or 5 WRs for all teams.

LD
 
Kick returner is barely a position anymore. As for injury risk, there is plenty of precedent for front line players returning punts. Heck, Deion used to return punts while being the best cover corner in the league. No one wants Landry hurt but letting him return punts as a rookie doesn't seem disproportionate anyway. Punt returners can make game changing plays. It's an important role.
 
LDaniel7 said:
The ONLY way WR is stacked is with possession WRs.

Wallace -- 4.3 legit. Only true playmaker WR on roster (jury out on Landry)
Hartline -- 4.6 (closer to a 4.6 in pads than a 4.5 and plays much weaker than one might think)
Landry -- 4.6+ in pads (more quickness than Hartline but even slower downfield)
Matthews -- 4.55 slowfoot. Better body control than Hartline, but cannot make plays downfield consistently.
Binns -- 4.55 and limited, but w. decent size. Has the potential to be a redzone threat -- and perhaps more potential as number 2 than Hartline. Still not a true threat downfield, though.
Gibson -- 4.6 w. decent quickness but zero threat downfield.

Slowest stable of WRs in the NFL, across the board. And limitations for each WR.

One true playmaker as of right now.

LD
p.s. and this in a league where 4.5 is considered marginal for a CB. Which means that most of the time Miami's WRs are lining up against defenders quicker and more talented than them.
Click to expand...

I understand the point your trying to make and I do agree that most of our guys are more possession type receivers, however, I disagree with the premise that you need 4.3 track speed to be a playmaker.

Was Jerry Rice a playmaker (4.6 speed)...Anquan Boldin (4.7 speed)...Mark Clayton (4.6 speed)??????

Football is not a track meet...I am betting on Jarvis Landry being A playmaker in the NFL.
 
LDaniel7 said:
Agreed on your second point, not to blur the categories. That said, my point still stands: 4.5 (out of pads) is considered marginal for starting CBs. And our WRs (out of pads) are considerably slower than that.

On your first point, I didn't run the top 5 WRs from every team -- so I shouldn't have said slowest in the league. I was comparing Miami w. playoff teams and top teams in our division. Which we don't compare, even w. Wallace. IF Wallace goes down, we're hurting big time.

LD

---------- Post added at 03:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:32 AM ----------



See my reply above. I was comparing us mostly to playoff teams and top teams in our division. Shouldn't have said slowest in league w.o definites on top 4 or 5 WRs for all teams.

LD
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Have you actually looked at other team's, playoffs or not, WR's 40 times, or are you just using the good ol' eye test/intuition?

Regardless it is really a joke that you harp so much on a WR's 40 time. Just because you run a timed 40 2/10ths of a second faster than someone else, does not mean you play faster than him. Additionally, very few receivers in this league get open by their pure speed alone, and ironically we actually HAVE one of the few who can.
 
I hope Thigpen is on the way out,he drives me crazy and makes some stupid decisions many times leaving us in POOR field position. We definitely need someone ELSE to step up and take the return responsibilities
 
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