Jeff Fisher chimes in on public critcism of Ireland

[CANDolphan]

That 2nd overall trade is why he went. He has Sam Bradford, a franchise QB. He now has more draft picks and ammo over the next 3 years (as well as a large amount of cap space!) to form HIS TEAM. He has final say over the draft, and he's looking pretty goddamn good.

Where did he accept less money? That's pure speculation.

---------- Post added at 02:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------

All 32 coaches in the NFL want the final say on what player is on the roster. It doesnt mean that Fisher wasnt sold on a GM, it means he believes in the priciple that the coach decides who is on team. He didnt ask for GM powers, he asked for final say. Big difference.

It could also be said that Ross and Peterson stood their ground on the final say issue with a vote of confidence in Ireland.

You don't know what "final say" means.

 

[Gonzo]

I'm shocked he didn't rip Ireland. Shocked. Flabbergasted. Stunned. Astonished. I was totally expecting him to say something horrible about Ireland in public in order to further substantiate my claim that Ireland isn't a good GM. Now I need to reevaluate my feeling regarding this FO's abilities.

We're totally playoff bound this season. I feel good where we are at the QB position at this time. Enhance. Enhance. Enhance.

 

[J Tes]

it's also juvenile to take anything these guys say publicly as absolute fact...these guys as in nfl people lie to the media all the damn time...coaches gms everybody

but i tell ya what i hate is all that agenda talk...i just try and connect the dots

the only thing i know for sure is we keep coming up short...

Again, you're missing the point. I'm not naive to think that everything, or hell even half of what anyone says publicly is truth. What i'm saying is that other than peoples opinions on this site, there's no reason to think that Fisher chose STL because of his feelings towards Ireland but because of the absolute disdain that a lot on here have of Ireland it's pretty much become fact that thats the reason

Listen, i'm not defending Ireland. I'm just as frustrated as everyone but I don't think he's completely incompentent. Do I think he should have been let go along with Sparano? Probably. None of us really know how much say he had while Tuna was here but he absolutely has to hold some of the responsiblilty and once Tuna left and Sparano was fired, I think the best route to go was to clean our hands of the entire situation and start over. But, i'm not the owner and Ross didn't feel the same. With that being said I think some of the criticism directed Irelands way is unwarranted...example-this thread. Maybe Fisher didn't want to come here because of Ireland, we don't know, but he says otherwise and even though STL has been worse, you can see why most would think that was a better situation for him to walk into but still, here we are blaming Ireland because on here, thats the truth and the thing to do

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Sam Bradford having a contract the size of a franchise quarterback and being one on the field are two completely different things.

If Matt Ryan isn't a franchise quarterback, Sam Bradford isn't even close to being one.


Homer Logic: Miami passes him up, he's not a franchise quarterback... no matter how good he is. Coach passes up Miami in favor of a competing team, it's because they have a franchise quarterback... no matter how bad he is or how many games he's not on the field due to durability issues.

 

[flynryan15]

Action speak louder then words

 

[J Tes]

Having final say over personnel means you have power exceeding the GM. Wanting final say over personnel and being required to perform the daily functions of a GM while also being the head football coach are where it's different.

Fisher disagreed with Ross on whether or not Jeff Ireland should have final say, so would I.

Is it at all possible the Ross disagreed that Fisher deserved final say?

 

[Zounds]

Having final say over personnel means you have power exceeding the GM.

No, it just means you have final say on the roster. Its doesn not give the head coach the power to direct scouts, negotiate contracts, deveolp a draft board, or trade picks for picks.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Is it at all possible the Ross disagreed that Fisher deserved final say?

Of course he did. Obviously Jeff Fisher and Stephen Ross had to disagree with each other in order for there to be a disagreement. The difference is, Ross took the advice of Carl Peterson to keep the structure in place where Ireland has final say on personnel. Peterson is Ross' "football guy" that he leans on for advice in football matters. Ireland got his start in the NFL because of Carl Peterson to begin with.

I prefer the structure where the GM has final say, but only if I believe he's a competent GM. Ireland should've been gone with the rest of 'em.

But it's Ross' team he can do whatever he wants to with it.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

No, it just means you have final say on the roster. Its doesn not give the head coach the power to direct scouts, negotiate contracts, deveolp a draft board, or trade picks for picks.

You make no sense. All of this is how you build a roster with the exception of managing scouts... who also have no say over personnel on draft day.

If you don't have final say over trades and acquisitions, you don't have final say over personnel. You're not in charge of your roster.

That's why Bill Parcells made his "buying groceries" comment in New England before he left. He wanted final say over personnel, not the daily duties of a GM while also being the head football coach.

In other words, you let the GM do his job until he's about to do something you as the football coach see as completely stupid or off the cuff... that's when you step in and have final say. All personnel proposals are put on your desk and approved before being made.

Most of the time the GM and head coach with final say will see eye-to-eye and there's no friction, but just in case there is... the coach wants final say.

 

[J Tes]

Of course he did. Obviously Jeff Fisher and Stephen Ross had to disagree with each other in order for there to be a disagreement. The difference is, Ross took the advice of Carl Peterson to keep the structure in place where Ireland has final say on personnel. Peterson is Ross' "football guy" that he leans on for advice in football matters. Ireland got his start in the NFL because of Carl Peterson to begin with.

I prefer the structure where the GM has final say, but only if I believe he's a competent GM. Ireland should've been gone with the rest of 'em.

But it's Ross' team he can do whatever he wants to with it.

I agree and said the samething in an earlier post. I don't think Ireland is as bad as he's portrayed to be but I do agree he should have been let go with Sparano. With that being said, I would have been okay with Fisher as the HC but not with the authority that he wanted

 

[Vaark]

Sorry but a guy who's put up 6 out of 17 winning seasons, and ironically a few of them with a QB who was foisted on him by a meddlesome owner, hasn't earned the credibility, let alone the right to "buy the groceries." For anyone who argues that it's all on Bud Adams, well what does it say about the judgment of the dumbazz who actually renewed his contract 2 or 3X knowing the lay of the land instead of extricating himself from such oppressive circumstances (and would still contendedly be there if not kicked to the curb)?

Ross was right. Period!!!

 

[Zounds]

You make no sense. All of this is how you build a roster with the exception of managing scouts... who also have no say over personnel on draft day.

If you don't have final say over trades and acquisitions, you don't have final say over personnel. You're not in charge of your roster.

That's why Bill Parcells made his "buying groceries" comment in New England before he left. He wanted final say over personnel, not the daily duties of a GM while also being the head football coach.

In other words, you let the GM do his job until he's about to do something you as the football coach see as completely stupid or off the cuff... that's when you step in and have final say. All personnel proposals are put on your desk and approved before being made.

Most of the time the GM and head coach with final say will see eye-to-eye and there's no friction, but just in case there is... the coach wants final say.

Im differentiating between the coaches who "want final say over personnel" and coahces who have the dual role of GM and Coach. Completely different. Bill Parcells' role here was essentially a GM position and quite different than the responsibilities Fisher asked for. You cant compare the two. Every coach wants final say on who plays on his team, and its not a slight against Ireland, is a slight on the GM position in general. If Fisher had asked for the GM tag, or ask to have Ireland replaced, then I would definitely take that as a negative towards Ireland.

 

[finfan54]

lets face it, he is afraid of matt moore kicking his ass when we play the rams. lol. in miami too. less we forget. he really knows who is the better team at this point.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Sorry but a guy who's put up 6 out of 17 winning seasons, and ironically a few of them with a QB who was foisted on him by a meddlesome owner, hasn't earned the credibility, let alone the right to "buy the groceries." For anyone who argues that it's all on Bud Adams, well what does it say about the judgment of the dumbazz who actually renewed his contract 2 or 3X knowing the lay of the land instead of extricating himself from such oppressive circumstances (and would still contendedly be there if not kicked to the curb)?

Ross was right. Period!!!

Jeff Ireland has even less credibility. I don't think Ross was right here in regards to Jeff Fisher. He's already helped the Rams swing a deal to get them out of the #2 pick and rape the Redskins in the process.

Where's Jeff Ireland's strategic draft moves? Trading up for a slow runningback with ball security issues to pass up a quarterback Miami could use pretty bad right now? Passing up a franchise quarterback for a left tackle with the #1 overall pick who they're currently afraid to give a long term deal to?

We'll find out who was right. I know I'll take Jeff Fisher at what he does over Jeff Ireland at what he does 10 out of 10 times.

 

[Vaark]

Jeff Ireland has even less credibility. I don't think Ross was right here in regards to Jeff Fisher. He's already helped the Rams swing a deal to get them out of the #2 pick and rape the Redskins in the process.

Where's Jeff Ireland's strategic draft moves? Trading up for a slow runningback with ball security issues to pass up a quarterback Miami could use pretty bad right now? Passing up a franchise quarterback for a left tackle with the #1 overall pick who they're currently afraid to give a long term deal to?

We'll find out who was right. I know I'll take Jeff Fisher at what he does over Jeff Ireland at what he does 10 out of 10 times.

You're right, we'll see. IMO what Fisher "accomplished" with that trade was a no brainer, most any decent GM could have done (although didn't 2 up and comers turn down interviews because of whom they'd be answering to?). However when you have an 8-8 QB the first year, sucked badly last season and is fragile as a china doll, the wisdom of trading out of RG3 will remain to be seen.

All I know is that someone who uses a meddlesome owner as a straw man although re-upping with him several times and still being there if not outwearing his welcome is not someone whose judgment I'd trust on the basis of faith.

And you know Teddy, how I feel about "franchise QBs." I like them when they do more than go 1 and out in instant death since college... and the last I looked Ireland wasn't the one who passed on Rodgers or Brees version 2 :idk:

Not defending him, but the administration seems to be graded on what I call a "Raw Meat Curve" If it's agenda-suiting negative information it's salivated over, accepted and embraced no questions asked; if it's anything positive, it's adjudged self-serving hype to be discredited. Just some even-handed objectivity por favor. That's all I require.