John Clayton just reported Ricky will not become a Free Agent

[Dphins4me]

I've only been here a week, but is there a way I can setup a filter to block all the posts by Dphins4me?

Otherwise, this forum rules!

Yes you can filter people. I'd help you but I never filter people, even the ones that argue the most. That is the fun is MB life.

If we all agreed then what is the point. I Know I love reading how much other people love the Phins over and over again and how they rule.

By the way. Why not start a thread like that.

 

[Ross]

Yes you can filter people. I'd help you but I never filter people, even the ones that argue the most. That is the fun is MB life.

If we all agreed then what is the point. I Know I love reading how much other people love the Phins over and over again and how they rule.

By the way. Why not start a thread like that.

I filter people all the time. Doesn't matter as much about what their opinion is. More in the way they express it...

--Ross

 

[Coral Reefer]

I don't think us getting his rights is a big deal. I don't think he will come back to football. Still, I'm happy we still have them just in case.

It's an extremely big deal!
A bigger deal than Ricky owing us the money.
It allows us the possbility of getting something back for 2 wasted first round picks.

Do you really believe this guy will never come back to football.
Once he comes down from his extended high and realizes he has little other skills and nothing else to make anywhere near the kind of money he was making he'll come back. When he does, he'll talk a good game about being a "reborn football player" and get some team to buy into it. We'll get at least a first day pick in return and some other team will have to worry about hiring a team Psychiatrist to deal with him.

Very big deal that we retain his rights.

 

[screamer]

I personally don't want the SOB back. Go somewhere else, get at least one of our number 1's back and make sure what ever team he goes too... THEY ARE ON OUR SCHEDULE!

 

[ckparrothead]

I don't think anyone but a bankruptcy attourney and/or judge and/or representative of the NFL or NFLPA should continue this debate.

The bottom line to me is both sides are credible. This tactic was in fact used as a threat by Reggie Roby's agent and the Phins paid heed to it by letting Roby go. I don't know what the C.B.A. actually says on the matter. But, I would be willing to bet nobody here does either. Let's just see how it plays out. I don't think it's entirely out of the realm of possibility that Ricky filing bankruptcy may result in his being an unrestricted free agent. But then again, I don't think Ricky necessarily will automatically be able to file bankruptcy either...you actually have to prove you don't have the money to pay back to the phins. And Ricky's been so stupid lately he probably paid very little attention to the proceedings or to what his agent and/or lawyers were saying, so I doubt he's covered his bases enough to make himself eligible to take advantage of various loopholes etc.

 

[DOLFANMIKE]

Says his rights still belong to Miami even if he files for bankruptcy. Poor Ricky. Looks like he'll have to come back and play just to pay Miami back.

 

[Merman]

I can settle part of this argument, which involves the NFL labor rules that is the (CBA) The Collective Bargaining Agreement.
The reason a club retains a retired player's contract rights is part of the standard NFL contract which is Appendix C paragraph 16. Tolled means suspended.

APPENDIX C
NFL PLAYER CONTRACT
16. EXTENSION. Unless this contract specifically provides otherwise, if Player becomes a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or any other country, or retires from professional football as an active player, or otherwise fails or refuses to perform his services under this contract, then this contract will be tolled between the date of Player's induction into the Armed Forces, or his retirement, or his failure or refusal to perform, and the later date of his return to professional football. During the period this contract is tolled, Player will not be entitled to any compensation or benefits. On Player's return to professional football, the term of this contract will be extended for a period of time equal to the number of seasons (to the nearest multiple of one) remaining at the time the contract was tolled. The right of renewal, if any, contained in this contract will remain in effect until the end of any such extended term.

Now bankruptcy law would take over and since I don't know it I don't have the slightest idea if a judge can set aside the whole contract. If that does happen then the regular CBA rules that most know would take affect.
A player with 4 or more credited seasons in a capped year that is not under contract is an UFA. He can also be franchised or transitioned.

ARTICLE XIX
VETERAN FREE AGENCY
Section 1. Unrestricted Free Agents:
(a) Subject to the provisions of Article XX (Franchise and Transition Players), any player with five or more Accrued Seasons, or with four or more Accrued Seasons in any Capped Year, shall, at the expiration of his Player Contract, become an Unrestricted Free Agent. Such player shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with such player, without penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of any kind, subject to the signing period set forth below.

Now lets suppose the Dolphins do keep Ricky’s rights. With a history of drug abuse by choice or not and a history of quitting when the going gets tough who in the league would give a significant draft pick for him??? I can’t believe any team will waste their time on Ricky unless they are giving up a fifth or sixth round pick or picking him up for no compensation.

 

[james127]

I don't want to read through this whole thread (I read through the first 3 pages), but I'd like to comment on the whole "retaining Ricky's rights" thing. Even if his contract is voided by a bankruptcy filing (and I'm not saying it definitely would be), do you think the NFL would let him change teams without penalizing somehow the team that picked him up? If the NFL did nothing in this hypothetical case, it sets a dangerous precedent that players wouldn't hesitate to take advantage of. Just this offseason, I'd think McKenzie and McCardell would have seriously thought of using this "loophole" if it was available to them.
Basically, what I'm saying is that I think the NFL would step in and use its authority to make sure this situation could not be fully taken advantage of, maybe not by limiting the player, but by limiting its member teams.
If not that, then I would imagine the Dolphins would receive rather high compensatory draft pick(s) for losing Ricky in such a case.
Just one guy's .02

 

[texasPHINSfan]

I don't want to read through this whole thread (I read through the first 3 pages), but I'd like to comment on the whole "retaining Ricky's rights" thing. Even if his contract is voided by a bankruptcy filing (and I'm not saying it definitely would be), do you think the NFL would let him change teams without penalizing somehow the team that picked him up? If the NFL did nothing in this hypothetical case, it sets a dangerous precedent that players wouldn't hesitate to take advantage of. Just this offseason, I'd think McKenzie and McCardell would have seriously thought of using this "loophole" if it was available to them.
Basically, what I'm saying is that I think the NFL would step in and use its authority to make sure this situation could not be fully taken advantage of, maybe not by limiting the player, but by limiting its member teams.
If not that, then I would imagine the Dolphins would receive rather high compensatory draft pick(s) for losing Ricky in such a case.
Just one guy's .02

heh, thats what i was saying this whole thread.... i even cited those two instances with McKenzie and McCardell!

 

[Dphins4me]

I don't want to read through this whole thread (I read through the first 3 pages), but I'd like to comment on the whole "retaining Ricky's rights" thing. Even if his contract is voided by a bankruptcy filing (and I'm not saying it definitely would be), do you think the NFL would let him change teams without penalizing somehow the team that picked him up? If the NFL did nothing in this hypothetical case, it sets a dangerous precedent that players wouldn't hesitate to take advantage of. Just this offseason, I'd think McKenzie and McCardell would have seriously thought of using this "loophole" if it was available to them.
Basically, what I'm saying is that I think the NFL would step in and use its authority to make sure this situation could not be fully taken advantage of, maybe not by limiting the player, but by limiting its member teams.
If not that, then I would imagine the Dolphins would receive rather high compensatory draft pick(s) for losing Ricky in such a case.
Just one guy's .02

You can't just run down to the local bankruptcy court and have it granted, because you do not like your deal. These two players do not owe large sums of money

Sure McKenzie & McCardell could file, but that means little if they cannot prove their debt is far more than their income. From what I understand the only way RW can file is if Miami goes after the money and enforces the debt.

From my understanding right now RW does not owe the money since Miami has not sought repayment.

Once Miami notifies RW that he must pay then the money is then owed.

 

[PhinstiGator]

...Once Miami notifies RW that he must pay then the money is then owed.

Miami will set up an easy payment plan. They won't demand all the money up front. Ricky has no bankruptcy ground to stand on. A millionaire player who quit football so he could smoke pot ain't going to inspire the court to bend over backwards for a favorable ruling.
My guess is that the genious lawyer who thought up this idea (bankruptcy will free Ricky from all responsibility) will soon fade into obscurity because his 15 minutes of fame are up.

 

[james127]

You can't just run down to the local bankruptcy court and have it granted, because you do not like your deal. These two players do not owe large sums of money

Sure McKenzie & McCardell could file, but that means little if they cannot prove their debt is far more than their income. From what I understand the only way RW can file is if Miami goes after the money and enforces the debt.

From my understanding right now RW does not owe the money since Miami has not sought repayment.

Once Miami notifies RW that he must pay then the money is then owed.

I thought I read the contract language RW had in his contract is pretty standard after the Barry Sanders incident (abrupt retirement). If that is the case McKenzie and McCardell (for example) could have "retired" in the past month. When their teams accelerated repayment of any bonuses, then they declare bankruptcy and we're where we are now with RW.

In any case, I understand what you're saying, but the legal aspect is all everyone is talking about on this board. My post was to bring attention to an opinion that the NFL, outside of any bankruptcy courts or rulings, would take it upon itself to "police" its member teams to prevent anyone from taking advantage of this potential loophole.

Personally, I don't care if RW suits up for Oakland (or whoever) or not in 2005, as long as the Dolphins get compensation (read: draft picks). That compensation can come from a team, or it can come from the NFL; makes no difference to me.

In a nutshell: the bankruptcy laws might say one thing, but the NFL will have its say in this matter. There's no way they sit idly by and let a legal loophole destroy their league.

 

[Merman]

From what I understand the only way RW can file is if Miami goes after the money and enforces the debt.
From my understanding right now RW does not owe the money since Miami has not sought repayment.
Once Miami notifies RW that he must pay then the money is then owed.

Ricky has lost his case in arbitration and the arbiter decided he owes the money. His agents were at the arbitration and have been informed not to mention the local and national press has reported the outcome. Can't get more notification than that if Ricky is not in the country to receive a certified mail notification.


Seems to me Ricky owes the money until a court says he doesn't whether it is an enforcement of collection or bankruptcy.


I find this case very interesting. I can understand repayment of a signing bonus even if the Dolphins did not originally make the payment. What I have trouble with is repayment for personal services successfully performed (incentives) and paid. I could understand if it was a construction contract where if the whole contract was not complete there is nothing of value but personal services are of a different nature.

 

[Ozzy]

Did not say Miami WOULD lose his rights if he filed. Said if he is granted then there is a possibility that he contract could be voided. Not a given simply because he files or is granted it.

I know if you retire and you have years remaining on your deal, then your contract still ties you to that team for the length of the remaining year.
However bankruptcy CAN change that. The contract can be voided.

Do you honestly think that this is a possibility? If it were, then why don't we see it all the time in the NFL?

It would ruin the NFL, and the courts would never let it happen.

 

[Dphins4me]

Do you honestly think that this is a possibility? If it were, then why don't we see it all the time in the NFL?

It would ruin the NFL, and the courts would never let it happen.

Because a player runs the risk of losing just about everything they have. Not many players are willing to do that. If RW files then he might lose everything but one house and I think one car. Why would a player be willing to take that chance for just hope of a new deal?

Plus you have to be in terrible debt and again not many players are in such bad shape that they could actually be granted bankruptcy.