Johnny Manziel Critics

[xXwarXx]

He doesn't leave the pocket for no reason... I assure you there's a reason. Blaine Gabbert left the pocket for no reason... hew threw with his eyes closed from inside the pocket.

Keenum went undrafted and Manziel will be a 1st rounder because there's a clear difference in talent.

There's also a difference between production in C-USA, and production in the SEC. That difference in talent is why one was in C-USA and the other in the SEC to begin with. It's just not a good comparison.

I've seen Johnny leave the pocket or stretch the pocket for no reason quite often, kid doesnt like to sit still. Watch his game vs LSU and tje difference between Johnny in the 1st and 2nd half. LSU brought the pressure hard the second half, Johnny didn't even look like the same player anymore. he got exposed bad there IMO.

And I agree Johnny is a better talent than Keenum, but I don't agree he's that much better and his strengths and weaknesses are far more similar than anyone seems to want to admit. Go read a scouting report from Keenum, it's identical to johnnys. Not saying Johnny isn't better, but there similarities are striking, amd his weaknesses is inntje NFL won't take long to expose the same way it did for Keenum.

And I agree, if I needed a qb late in the 1st I'd take a shot on Johnny, not because I really think he will be a franchise qb, more so for the "why not" factor. And Id love to see him go to Dallas just for the entertainment factor.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I've seen Johnny leave the pocket or stretch the pocket for no reason quite often, kid doesnt like to sit still. Watch his game vs LSU and tje difference between Johnny in the 1st and 2nd half. LSU brought the pressure hard the second half, Johnny didn't even look like the same player anymore. he got exposed bad there IMO.

And I agree Johnny is a better talent than Keenum, but I don't agree he's that much better and his strengths and weaknesses are far more similar than anyone seems to want to admit. Go read a scouting report from Keenum, it's identical to johnnys. Not saying Johnny isn't better, but there similarities are striking, amd his weaknesses is inntje NFL won't take long to expose the same way it did for Keenum.

And I agree, if I needed a qb late in the 1st I'd take a shot on Johnny, not because I really think he will be a franchise qb, more so for the "why not" factor. And Id love to see him go to Dallas just for the entertainment factor.

Here's what you have to understand... there's a lot of quarterbacks in the NFL staying in the pocket for no reason. Because they can't play.

These are the teams that need to take a shot on Johnny Manziel.

 

[spiketex]

Manziel is the most polarizing player to come along since Tebow. The Draft Analysts in the media are all over the place on him. Gil Brandt has said that he's the best player in the Draft and expects that he will be taken #1 by the Texans. Ron Jaworski has identified a string of potential problems on and off the field and sees him as a 2nd or 3rd round pick. That's a pretty big variance.
Manziel is extremely confident and is probably the most arrogant player to emerge in a decade. He is undersize, underweight and too inclined to scramble to get out of trouble. I think that his inclination to run around is exceptional but what has been a success in college will be his undoing in the NFL. I expect the big fast guys on Defense will ultimately get to him and blow him up.
I think that he may have the skills to warrant a high draft pick, but is very high risk. I wouldn't touch him.

 

[xXwarXx]

Here's what you have to understand... there's a lot of quarterbacks in the NFL staying in the pocket for no reason. Because they can't play.

These are the teams that need to take a shot on Johnny Manziel.

Like I said, I don't blame a team for taking a shot on him. But ill like him a lot more when he shows me something against the blitz.

Imo that seems to be one of the most important if not the most important factor in being a top qb in the nfl consistently.

 

[Carne Asada]

You have to consider his paranoid-schizoid-psychotic style of QBing was with Joeckel, Matthews and Oghbuie on the O-line. Go figure what would have happened to him behind the 2013 Miami Dolphins OL.

His style of play also is not entirely attributable to just not having a good feel for the pressure, but rather locking on to, isolating and building a throwing lane toward his sole target he decided to sell out on within one second the ball had been snapped.

I don't think he can sit in the pocket simply cause he can't keep track of his 5 receiving options, routes and timing.

 

[ckparrothead]

That is a good point actually.

Just playing in the SEC doesn't mean you played great defensive ends who could play with speed on the outsides and contain your 4.6 speed when you try and make your "magic" happen.

The caliber of players he faced for most of the year were within the grasp of standouts like Jake Matthews and Cedric Ogbuehi. But then when he faced better defensive line talent against LSU and Missouri they were able to contain him, stay plastered on his receivers, and beat him.

I get the approach being proposed for teams that don't have QBs. You've got to take a chance (preferably several chances) at the position or your employment is on an egg timer. But the polarization basically means that Manziel's buyers adore him and think he's clearly the best in the draft, whereas his detractors think he's crap, and I think walking the middle is the better strategy.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

That is a good point actually.

Just playing in the SEC doesn't mean you played great defensive ends who could play with speed on the outsides and contain your 4.6 speed when you try and make your "magic" happen.

The caliber of players he faced for most of the year were within the grasp of standouts like Jake Matthews and Cedric Ogbuehi. But then when he faced better defensive line talent against LSU and Missouri they were able to contain him, stay plastered on his receivers, and beat him.

I get the approach being proposed for teams that don't have QBs. You've got to take a chance (preferably several chances) at the position or your employment is on an egg timer. But the polarization basically means that Manziel's buyers adore him and think he's clearly the best in the draft, whereas his detractors think he's crap, and I think walking the middle is the better strategy.

In addition to wilting to LSU's physicality, A&M's WR's botched or dropped 7 passes. If you supplant these plays with catches (without adding any RAC), here are the numbers I registered for Manziel's day against LSU - 24 of 39 (two drops occurred in the End Zone and would have negated two attempts) for 316 yards with 3 TD’s and 1 INT. That’s an average of 8.1 YPA – below his season average, but solid. He definitely had an off night, and some drops are to be expected, so I don't mean to say that he deserves credit for a game that looks just like this on the stat sheet. I am saying his WR's cost him more - just in missing passes, not even counting the way they were ragdolled by LSU's DB's - than a QB can usually account for.

 

[WVDolphan]

I just don't agree with that at all.

Johnny Manziel can talk a big game about being a diligent worker and living/breathing the game, but when it comes time to show up to the most prestigious passing camp in existence for an experience most quarterbacks would kill to be invited to, he shows up drunk/hungover and gets kicked out of it. That's his commitment level.

And there's a lot more sh-t under the surface down there at College Station that people haven't heard of. And he knows it. And he knows that the scouts know it. That's why he has to continue to talk a big game about how college was college and NOW it's time to get serious. He said that, not me. That was his message, carefully crafted, at the NFL Combine.

Except it doesn't work like that. You don't develop a work ethic overnight. You don't just flip the on switch and suddenly you're a professional. That's something you have to have been working at for years, tediously attempting to perfect. Being a professional is like any other skill. It's like any other trade. You have to work at it. The weak ones say well NOW I'm going to do it. No big. I wasn't doing it before but now it counts.

Yes the man is going to have to change his game in order to play in the NFL. Not because the game demands quarterbacks stay in the pocket and everyone be Tom Brady. Not at all. He's going to have to change because *he* can't play that way, because of *his* shortcomings. He's tiny, his body has ALREADY taken on punishment and a bunch of injuries, and that's only going to get worse when the bodies get bigger and more explosive and the hits can knock you unconscious to where you wake up playing baseball. He's got an average arm. He's got average accuracy. He's got 4.6 speed, and that was something I could have and did in fact tell people BEFORE he ran in Indianapolis even back when he was telling people he hadn't run a 40 yard dash in like 3 or 4 years.

Maybe he can find a way to adapt. It wouldn't shock me. I don't have him on the "do not draft" list. But I don't have him with the same grade I put on Russell Wilson either (mid to high 2nd round). I don't think it's a great bet asking players with his off field character issues to adapt and accept change with the type of aplomb of an NFL quarterback.

Be fair. Not everyone can be Ryan Mallet.

 

[WVDolphan]

Is the implication here that Manziel is being criticized because he's white while Griffin wasn't because he's black?

Im not implying anything. Im simply asking a question.

I will ask you a more direct one........

Do you think media members avoided criticizing Griffin and instead simply went with the flow, for fear of being labeled a racist by the type of folks who love to cry racism when it isnt a factor at all?

 

[j-off-her-doll]

For my money, there is no QB coach better than Jim Harbaugh. When asked about Manziel:

“I’d welcome the challenges of taking Johnny Manziel,” Harbaugh said, via the San Francisco Chronicle. “[He] sees the field like nobody I’ve ever seen see the field in college football. You’d love to work with that.”

http://nflspinzone.com/2014/04/03/jim-harbaugh-welcome-challenge-johnny-manziel/

That's not an end-all by any means, but he's a guy with no legitimate shot at Manziel (who also has a QB), and neither the Cardinals or Rams are likely to draft Manziel, so I think he's being honest. I also think he's right. Manziel's instincts are on another level. I don't think any of these QB's are likely to make a bad team good - like Luck. But if you give them a commitment to the run game and a strong D, and ask them to convert 3rd downs and make winning plays, I think Manziel and Bridgewater have enough special traits to excel (like a young Brady or Big Ben, like Wilson and Kaepernick).

 

[xXwarXx]

In addition to wilting to LSU's physicality, A&M's WR's botched or dropped 7 passes. If you supplant these plays with catches (without adding any RAC), here are the numbers I registered for Manziel's day against LSU - 24 of 39 (two drops occurred in the End Zone and would have negated two attempts) for 316 yards with 3 TD’s and 1 INT. That’s an average of 8.1 YPA – below his season average, but solid. He definitely had an off night, and some drops are to be expected, so I don't mean to say that he deserves credit for a game that looks just like this on the stat sheet. I am saying his WR's cost him more - just in missing passes, not even counting the way they were ragdolled by LSU's DB's - than a QB can usually account for.

This is revolutionary, didn't even know we could do that.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

This is revolutionary, didn't even know we could do that.

As I said, it illustrates how many plays his WR's left on the field. I'm not saying those are his rightful stats for the game. No QB was going to win that game - given the way his WR's were dominated/left plays on the field and given the 300+ rushing yards A&M's D allowed.

 

[xXwarXx]

As I said, it illustrates how many plays his WR's left on the field. I'm not saying those are his rightful stats for the game. No QB was going to win that game - given the way his WR's were dominated/left plays on the field and given the 300+ rushing yards A&M's D allowed.

I know, I was just messing with ya.

 

[utahphinsfan]

Very good chance. Unless it's a double-smoke screen, and he wants people to think he's trying to sound like he's not interested :^p

Deion came out in defense of JM2. To quote Stan Lee, "Nuf said."

p.s. This thread makes me wonder if WV has jumped off the M Ryan bandwagon?

 

[ckparrothead]

If Cam Newton had tried to trademark "The House That Cam Built" in April 2011 the draft media would've nailed him to the cross. Manziel does it and it's a minor PFT blurb that goes largely ignored.

I would think most would probably tell Johnny he should focus on building that house before trademarking it.

"The House the Rookie Trademarked"