Keyshawn Johnson on Trevor Lawrence | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Keyshawn Johnson on Trevor Lawrence

Speaking of hype, Fabio was the most hyped quarterback since Andrew Luck. So the criticism from people like KJ seems fair.

However, the start that Justin Herbert got off too was as unpredictable as it was rare and unusual. It simply doesn't happen. It's not the standard that young QB's should be held to. Herbert wasn't going to be held to that standard either. It just kinda happened.

No young QB in the NFL is going to match it, nor should they be expected to. Every young QB in the league from Tua to Trevor are on the same pace as 99% of Hall of Fame QB's that came before them. You just kinda have to relax and see what happens. I say this every year - anyone giving hot takes on young quarterbacks are the first people that need to be ignored. But I don't think that was Keyshawn's point here.

I think his point is how inconsistent the criticism is for young QB's, especially those in poor situations.
 
I still don't see how you see Tua's performance this past week and not come out energized and excited about the future. Even comparing it to Trevor's. Tua looked decisive as hell, aggressive, and managed the pocket. 20 pressures by the clowns in front of him and he was sacked 0 times because of his ability to navigate the pocket. I'm curious why he isn't launching deep posts and sideline balls like he did in Bama, but maybe its because his skill receivers suck and still has to work on it at the NFL level.

Trevor had some good throws but he's also throwing against - Noah, Brandon Jones, Holland, Nik Needham, Justin Coleman, and 50 year old Jason Mccourty. With Marvin Jones, Shenault, and has a running game to go along with it. Tua has Mack Hollins who couldnt make the bum Eagles squad, Isiah Ford (no comment), Albert Wilson (can't even run the right routes), Jaylen Waddle and Gesicki. The only player he can trust is a rookie in Waddle and Gesicki.

Half the time, Tua is waiting and double clutching because his receivers aren't getting open or reading the defense right. It's like watching an actual QB with NFL top level potential play with high school skill players.

I don't care what anyone says, Tua is one of the most exciting young QB's to watch play. He's rhythmic, aggressive, agile, and able to signal so much. He had control at the LOS at the first half and was signaling left and right.

Imagine if Tua had a game like Herbert did last weekend.
 
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RobertHorry said:
Imagine if Tua had a game like Herbert did last weekend.
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Or like Drew Lock always has, when they're actually forced to play him.

On the bright side, there's guys like Logan Woodside and J.T. Barrett out there for Miami to snatch up. I hear they can score. #1 overall pick worthy.

If you'd rather default to the size and arm strength category - Cardale Jones, Jacob Eason, and several others that were supposed to be better pros than Tua should be available in exchange for a few more of Grier's draft picks.
 
RobertHorry said:
I still don't see how you see Tua's performance this past week and not come out energized and excited about the future. Even comparing it to Trevor's. Tua looked decisive as hell, aggressive, and managed the pocket. 20 pressures by the clowns in front of him and he was sacked 0 times because of his ability to navigate the pocket. I'm curious why he isn't launching deep posts and sideline balls like he did in Bama, but maybe its because his skill receivers suck and still has to work on it at the NFL level.

Trevor had some good throws but he's also throwing against - Noah, Brandon Jones, Holland, Nik Needham, Justin Coleman, and 50 year old Jason Mccourty. With Marvin Jones, Shenault, and has a running game to go along with it. Tua has Mack Hollins who couldnt make the bum Eagles squad, Isiah Ford (no comment), Albert Wilson (can't even run the right routes), Jaylen Waddle and Gesicki. The only player he can trust is a rookie in Waddle and Gesicki.

Half the time, Tua is waiting and double clutching because his receivers aren't getting open or reading the defense right. It's like watching an actual QB with NFL top level potential play with high school skill players.

I don't care what anyone says, Tua is one of the most exciting young QB's to watch play. He's rhythmic, aggressive, agile, and able to signal so much. He had control at the LOS at the first half and was signaling left and right.

Imagine if Tua had a game like Herbert did last weekend.
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Tua has played two games so far this year and played well. I thought he was the best player on the field for both teams vs Jax.
 
Pachyderm_Wave said:
Speaking of hype, Fabio was the most hyped quarterback since Andrew Luck. So the criticism from people like KJ seems fair.

However, the start that Justin Herbert got off too was as unpredictable as it was rare and unusual. It simply doesn't happen. It's not the standard that young QB's should be held to. Herbert wasn't going to be held to that standard either. It just kinda happened.

No young QB in the NFL is going to match it, nor should they be expected to. Every young QB in the league from Tua to Trevor are on the same pace as 99% of Hall of Fame QB's that came before them. You just kinda have to relax and see what happens. I say this every year - anyone giving hot takes on young quarterbacks are the first people that need to be ignored. But I don't think that was Keyshawn's point here.

I think his point is how inconsistent the criticism is for young QB's, especially those in poor situations.
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Herbert’s rookie year was a bit like Dan Marino’s. They both looked way more polished and ready than they should have. It is very rare indeed.
 
royalshank said:
Tua has played two games so far this year and played well. I thought he was the best player on the field for both teams vs Jax.
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I support any decision Miami makes that gets Tua out of there. Followed by Jaylen Waddle.
 
The issue is that some Tua detractors try to paint the picture that Justin Herbert is 30 TD's better than Tua - which is false. Secondly, they try to paint the picture that Herbert is 30 TD's better than Tua simply because of a difference in physical tools. Also false.

I promise that Justin Herbert isn't out there making throws that would be falling out of the air 15 yards short of the target had Tua thrown it. But that's the picture the detractors are trying to paint. It's so absurd that the only place you can get away with it is on message boards.

Is Herbert better than Tua? Possibly.

Is he 30 TD's better than Tua - given the exact same circumstances? Absolutely not. And it's proven by the way all the other young QB's are struggling.

The difference is in their circumstances. That's where there's a 30 TD difference. Otherwise, Tua wouldn't have beaten Herbert last year.

If there was talk that Tua wasn't worth a 1st round pick and might slide out of the 1st round if Miami or the Chargers didn't pick him, then he's already proven that talk as false. It's pretty clear he was worth a 1st round pick and he hasn't even really done all that well yet.

Furthermore, if Tua wasn't worth a 1st round pick, then obviously neither are any of the others. Including "elite tools" prospects like Trevor Lawrence.






Here's the deal - Tua was always better than Herbert. From high school to college. The reason Tua was so much better than Herbert in college is because Tua was in a better situation. Herbert didn't suddenly become a superhero and Tua suddenly become a grocery bagger.

In a better situation, Tua and Herbert become much closer again.

The point I've been trying to get across for a long time on here is this - no matter how bad some of the fanbase thinks it is in Miami, they still had no idea how bad it really is.

I've tried to tell 'em.
 
Yeah, saying that Herbert is 30tds better than Tua is, uh, gonna need to be proved. And I don't think it will be.

I think if they trade Tua it will be the absolute best thing for him. This franchise is a disaster. I say that as a fan of the Dolphins, not of Tua. This is a tomb.
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
Yeah, saying that Herbert is 30tds better than Tua is, uh, gonna need to be proved. And I don't think it will be.

I think if they trade Tua it will be the absolute best thing for him. This franchise is a disaster. I say that as a fan of the Dolphins, not of Tua. This is a tomb.
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Absolutely. For all the folks that now wish Miami drafted Herbert - I imagine Tua wishes it more than they do.
 
Pachyderm_Wave said:
Speaking of hype, Fabio was the most hyped quarterback since Andrew Luck. So the criticism from people like KJ seems fair.

However, the start that Justin Herbert got off too was as unpredictable as it was rare and unusual. It simply doesn't happen. It's not the standard that young QB's should be held to. Herbert wasn't going to be held to that standard either. It just kinda happened.

No young QB in the NFL is going to match it, nor should they be expected to. Every young QB in the league from Tua to Trevor are on the same pace as 99% of Hall of Fame QB's that came before them. You just kinda have to relax and see what happens. I say this every year - anyone giving hot takes on young quarterbacks are the first people that need to be ignored. But I don't think that was Keyshawn's point here.

I think his point is how inconsistent the criticism is for young QB's, especially those in poor situations.
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In fairness, the previous season Herbert could have been the subject of "Tank for Herbert" because he was presumably the #1 over pick, had he come out. He was ready to be a pro QB and Oregon held him back with the horizontal stuff because...I dunno.

Lawrence, I was impressed at first but then I lost money on him and have been skeptical ever since.
 
DPhinz_DPhinz said:
In fairness, the previous season Herbert could have been the subject of "Tank for Herbert" because he was presumably the #1 over pick, had he come out. He was ready to be a pro QB and Oregon held him back with the horizontal stuff because...I dunno.

Lawrence, I was impressed at first but then I lost money on him and have been skeptical ever since.
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Well there really was no Tank for Herbert the previous season. I certainly didn't grade Herbert as a #1 overall worthy prospect after the 2018 season and not aware of anyone that did. He didn't even manage to complete 60% of his passes.

There's a reason he didn't enter the draft as an underclassman after that season and it's because he wasn't ready. He made a great decision to go back for his Senior year and the growth was notable - we talked about it weekly in my Senior quarterback thread in the draft forum. Although he did look like the same ol' Herbert in the season opener when he got outplayed by a true freshman Bo Nix playing in his first ever college game - which culminated in Herbert throwing Oregon's last chance to win the game on a Hail Mary into the student section. But he improved every week from there.

Tua would've been the #1 overall pick in the 2019 Draft had he been eligible. Not Herbert. Tua was on his way to winning the Heisman Trophy in a landslide as a sophomore until he got hurt in the SEC Championship Game vs. Georgia. They ended up giving the Heisman to Kyler Murray. Which prompted Tua to spank his ass in the first round of the playoffs less than 30 days later.

Even with a catastrophic hip injury and Herbert's improvement as a Senior, Herbert still didn't manage to get drafted ahead of him.
 
Pachyderm_Wave said:
Even with a catastrophic hip injury and Herbert's improvement as a Senior, Herbert still didn't manage to get drafted ahead of him.
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Presently, that is a situation that might turn out to haunt us for the next ____ years. Especially if tua continues his Teddy Bridgewater imitation Especially if Tua continues his Teddy Bridgewater imitation.

I heard you say something to the effect that Herbert landed in the right situation and Tua in the wrong situation in the NFL.

Let's take that back to the college days. If Tua goes to Oregon he becomes lesser. If Herbert attends Alabama he becomes greater.
 
DPhinz_DPhinz said:
Presently, that is a situation that might turn out to haunt us for the next ____ years. Especially if tua continues his Teddy Bridgewater imitation Especially if Tua continues his Teddy Bridgewater imitation.
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It’s possible. It probably looks that way to a lot of people right now. But that’s just the game you play in sports. Decisions have consequences.

But I don’t necessarily believe everything is what it seems to be right now. It might be. But I don’t know that yet.

Either way, you and I don’t differ on the notion that Tua needs to get out of Miami. We just differ in the reasons why.

I’m all for Miami trading for Watson and turning Tua loose. I don’t care about Miami or what happens to them. They drafted Tua - he didn’t draft them. It was their decision not his.

All I want to see is Tua get a shot playing in a fair situation to see what he’s got. That’s all.
 
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