Laremy Tunsil showed he could pass protect at left guard in the NFL. Now can he do it at left tackle

[Dajesus]

but...is he wrong though? If not both of those posts seem rather unfair.

According to most sites Tunsil gave up 1 sack when playing LT, but it is an unofficial stat so there is no concrete number. If it is 0, 1, or 2, it doesn't matter, as its a very low number. #67 played very well for a rookie playing out of position, and most of all against the pass. Everything we saw last year suggested that he will play at a very high level, and should be a good to great LT for Miami for a long time.

That being said, I agree with Miamiron. SOS is super negative, and seems to bash Miami more than anything.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

People really need to stop posting the ****ing garbage that comes from PFF.

Those numbers are not true for Tunsil. Just for starters he allowed the first sack of the season and another at LT filling in for Albert.

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[Sons Of Shula]

I'm not bashing Tunsil, he's an excellent lineman; I'm bashing PFF for their misinformation. Nor have I talked any smack to any posters. I simply requested to stop posting PFF because they are inaccurate and inconsistent. And that's who I called ****ing garbage, not a member, or their opinion, or the work posted by a member.

 

[Daytona Fin]

Let's dial it back a bit gentleman. I know people have issues with sources like PFF and others but this is a football forum. There are always going to be articles posted from outside sources by our Finheaven members. Regardless of where they come from, which will be ranging from Omar to Barry Jackson and everything in between, a persons distaste of said source is not going to stop members from posting articles. So let's try and keep it civil and on track with the subject matter. Feel free to criticize an article or source but there is no need to get personal or take the thread off topic because of someone criticizing an article. Have a good day.

 

[Dajesus]

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The first one against Seattle is very suspect, as Tunsil was engaged with another defender, and it was BA's guy, could he have released the DT he was blocking to the outside, and helped BA with the stunt? Maybe, but that would be a lot to ask any NFL G more less a rookie playing in his first game. I doubt any source gives Tunsil the responsibility for that sack, and why most sites only give him the sack surrenderd in the Cincy game. Either way the only two plays in question are in his first game in the NFL, and his first game at LT. Not a bad body of work.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

The first one against Seattle is very suspect, as Tunsil was engaged with another defender, and it was BA's guy, could he have released the DT he was blocking to the outside, and helped BA with the stunt? Maybe, but that would be a lot to ask any NFL G more less a rookie playing in his first game. I doubt any source gives Tunsil the responsibility for that sack, and why most sites only give him the sack surrenderd in the Cincy game. Either way the only two plays in question are in his first game in the NFL, and his first game at LT. Not a bad body of work.

There's nothing suspect about the 1st sack being Tunsil's fault; it's all on him. There's a reason defensive lines slant, stunt and loop in order to create the confusion among blocking assignments post snap and it's because they are looking for the result that Clark accomplished. The DT attacks Tunsil outside shoulder and intends to occupy him away from the inside loop by design. Not sure why anyone wouldn't credit Tunsil with the sack there as not every sack is a simple result of getting beat off the snap on a bull rush or spin move. Many are the outcome of creativity and not just pure speed or power.

Tunsil is and will be an excellent lineman. You are also correct in saying those particular two are a result of playing those positions for the first time. I was just dispelling the misinformation put out by PFF, nothing more.

 

[hoops]

Both of those sacks are easily correctable with game reps. It's just positional awareness due to lack of live game action reps.

I'm confident in saying that he will be a top 5 left tackle and he could be a pro bowl left guard even. Super talented.

Cornerstone type player.

 

[Dajesus]

There's nothing suspect about the 1st sack being Tunsil's fault; it's all on him. There's a reason defensive lines slant, stunt and loop in order to create the confusion among blocking assignments post snap and it's because they are looking for the result that Clark accomplished. The DT attacks Tunsil outside shoulder and intends to occupy him away from the inside loop by design. Not sure why anyone wouldn't credit Tunsil with the sack there as not every sack is a simple result of getting beat off the snap on a bull rush or spin move. Many are the outcome of creativity and not just pure speed or power.

Tunsil is and will be an excellent lineman. You are also correct in saying those particular two are a result of playing those positions for the first time. I was just dispelling the misinformation put out by PFF, nothing more.

PFF gives Tunsil one sack on a couple articles I found. 2 other sites gave him 1 sack. I might me more inclined to agree with you if Albert didn't engage the pass rusher and have his hands on him, or if BA went after the DT rather than the DE, but as it stands that was BA's sack. I don't know where the OP found that image as everything as everything I have read on there says he gave up one, and that looks legit. I don't love the site, but I don't hate it either. They rank arbitrary things, so of course it's not sacred, but they shed light on things as well.

Here is a link to back up what I was saying: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-how-all-31-first-round-picks-have-played-this-season

 

[Sons Of Shula]

PFF gives Tunsil one sack on a couple articles I found. 2 other sites gave him 1 sack. I might me more inclined to agree with you if Albert didn't engage the pass rusher and have his hands on him, or if BA went after the DT rather than the DE, but as it stands that was BA's sack. I don't know where the OP found that image as everything as everything I have read on there says he gave up one, and that looks legit. I don't love the site, but I don't hate it either. They rank arbitrary things, so of course it's not sacred, but they shed light on things as well.

Here is a link to back up what I was saying: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-how-all-31-first-round-picks-have-played-this-season

That's absolutely incorrect.

How is Albert supposed to block the DE once he disengages and twists inside? He can't unless he holds him from doing so which is illegal. So Tunsil must pass off the DT to his outside help and engage the DE as he releases from Albert and loops inside. There is no other way to pass protect in this situation.


1. Here is the play from a defensive POV explained by Ben McKaig the DL Coach of Utica College:

In our TEX twist, the penetration is going to come from our 3-technique. He must get off the ball directly at the OT’s ear hole. It is his job to strike the tackle and get immediately vertical. His aiming point is the up field shoulder of the QB on the ricochet. He has to be able to contain the QB from inside the offensive tackle. This is possible because our DE is going to occupy the offensive tackle’s eyes and feet, so we will get a free shot to strike and ricochet inside. This helps to shrink the pocket and get immediate pressure.

The loop is going to come from our DE. He knows that without a good first 2 steps, the twist will not work because his OT will be able to see the hit coming from our 3-technique. He must occupy the offensive tackle until the penetrator is able to strike the ear hole. When timed properly, the stick and nod described above will happen right as contact is being made.

2. Here is the play from an offensive POV explained by Justin Iske the OL Coach from Fort Hays State University:

REACTING TO TWISTS IN MAN PROTECTION

Our preference is to pass off any twists in our man protection. The key to this is staying on level with your partner. It is especially important for the center to lose ground on his kick set (he will never post set) to get on level with the guards. If we are not on the same level, we are inviting penetration and we will get picked by twisters. With that being said, it is important to understand that if we do get off level, we will man off any twist.


Blocking the Looper

In order to get twists passed off, we must recognize them as soon as possible. The lineman aligned on the looper (second man) is the one that must see the twist and communicate it both verbally and physically as soon as possible. Pre-snap alignment or stance may be an indicator to alert us to a twist (every defense is different but almost all of them have some sort of tell as to when they are twisting). Down and distance may be another pre-snap alert. In terms of post-snap recognition, hesitation by the looper at the snap will give the twist away. Once we see the hesitation, we must get depth and snap our eyes in the direction that the defender is working towards. We get depth so that the penetrator can’t get to our hip and pick us from passing things off. After we locate the penetrator, we must attack him with our facemask and both hands to knock our partner off and ensure that the penetrator can’t grab our partner. While we do this we must still stay as square to the line as possible.

3. And yet another offensive POV from Rich Alercio Offensive Line Researcher X&O Labs:

However, we do switch when DT goes out to pick Tackle and DE loops inside (Diagram 14). If the Guard stays with DT and DT picks Tackle, there is no one to block the DE on the Loop

There you go. Since you refuse to take my word for it, there are 3 separate excerpts from other real football coaches - and not some dinky ass analytic site - who express the same coaching points I have been making with slight nuances.

 

[MercMan]

That 2nd clip you showed I don't believe was considered a sack because Tannehill made it past the LOS. Although, it was terrible blocking on that play. Tunsil has the talent, I believe he just needs to acclimate to the speed and versatility of pass rushers in the NFL.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

That 2nd clip you showed I don't believe was considered a sack because Tannehill made it past the LOS. Although, it was terrible blocking on that play. Tunsil has the talent, I believe he just needs to acclimate to the speed and versatility of pass rushers in the NFL.

It yielded 0 yards for loss but is still a sack.

Link: 4th Qtr 7:44 Ryan Tannehill sacked by Will Clarke for 0 yards

Positive point is that both sacks were simply a result of inexperience and not technical issues. As you said, Tunsil certainly has the talent and I also believe on an exceptional level at that.

 

[Digital]

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The Cincinnati one is all him. But the first one is a stunt that the LG didn't pick up. It started out as an end rush, but they then twisted after the DT engaged the guard and drew him out of the hole. The LG didn't disengage, pass off his man to Tunsil and pick him the stunting DE like he should have. That's not Tunsil's fault, it's the LG's fault.

The Cincinnati one though, yeah, that's just bad OL play. The TE chipped but it wasn't solely the TE's man to block. Tunsil just wiffed. Rookie mistake.

Still, all in all, I thought Tunsil played very well as a rookie, particularly because he played most of it at a brand new position, LG. Then when he shifted out to LT, he really didn't have enough LT reps to be where he should have been as a rookie. I was very happy with his performance overall.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

The Cincinnati one is all him. But the first one is a stunt that the LG didn't pick up. It started out as an end rush, but they then twisted after the DT engaged the guard and drew him out of the hole. The LG didn't disengage, pass off his man to Tunsil and pick him the stunting DE like he should have. That's not Tunsil's fault, it's the LG's fault.

The Cincinnati one though, yeah, that's just bad OL play. The TE chipped but it wasn't solely the TE's man to block. Tunsil just wiffed. Rookie mistake.

Still, all in all, I thought Tunsil played very well as a rookie, particularly because he played most of it at a brand new position, LG. Then when he shifted out to LT, he really didn't have enough LT reps to be where he should have been as a rookie. I was very happy with his performance overall.

I completely agree.

BTW, Tunsil is playing LG and Albert is the LT. Thanks for the confirmation. :thumbsup

 

[Digital]

I completely agree!

BTW, Tunsil is playing LG and Albert is the LT. Thanks for the confirmation. :thumbsup

Ahh, I thought you were trying to say he allowed both as LT.

And that's why you always throw confusing stuff at rookies ... they fall for it, especially when they're playing in a position they've never played in before any other year of their career, LOL.

Still like what I saw of Tunsil at both LT and LG. He was our best guard last year, despite what Gase tries to say.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Ahh, I thought you were trying to say he allowed both as LT.

My only point to this thread was that the PFF graphic that was tweeted out earlier today

Spoiler

was wrong and that Tunsil gave up at least two sacks that I knew of off the top of my head.

And that's why you always throw confusing stuff at rookies ... they fall for it, especially when they're playing in a position they've never played in before any other year of their career, LOL.

Still like what I saw of Tunsil at both LT and LG. He was our best guard last year, despite what Gase tries to say.

Yep. He was our best lineman, IMO. The Bushrod praise was pure coachspeak.