Let me add some perspective..........

[_dan24]

Nobody here is bashing Jason Taylor... we are mearly discussimg whether or not the scouts were right about certain weaknesses that Taylor had when he was scouted and whether or not they hold true to this day.

Read up a bit.... People still think he's bad against the run.


I know when he came out he was bad, only becuase he was just rushing the passer....


Now he's a complete stud...

 

[FIN-IN-RI]

That last part you stated was my point. He ended up not being a liablity against the run BECAUSE we had DT's that could take out the middle. To me it showed last year that when me lost those run stuffers that we could not contain the middle, even if we tried to use the OLB's to contain on the outside. I am thinking that that's what the draft reports were talking about.

Well when you take out the meat in the middle, of course the run d will suffer. We lost a lot with timbo and chester out. Taylors a good run stopper when teams go off-tackle to JT's side.. when teams go up the gut and gain yards you can't put the onus on JT.

 

[TeeMoney]

lol @ JT bad against the run... You people miss the amount of tackles he piles up? It's one of his best traits now...

I'm not going to bother going to the link because what you are reasoning out is incorrect. Taylor doesn't get many tackles because he is "good against the run". He get's the tackles because of his quickness and great instincts. He run's by the tackle and get's the RB/QB. He rushes the QB, and stops short when he feels a screen and tackles the receiver. He uses his quicks to get down the line and chase a RB down from the backside. He is never going to just stand up an OT and hold position for a LB or Safety. He disrupts and quickly diagnoses the play. He has great stop/start movements and the lateral agility to adjust to the OT's movement. Jason Taylors "weakness" would be against a power running game- running straight at Taylor and getting bodies on him will nullify his huge speed advantage.

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

I'm not going to bother going to the link because what you are reasoning out is incorrect. Taylor doesn't get many tackles because he is "good against the run". He get's the tackles because of his quickness and great instincts. He run's by the tackle and get's the RB/QB. He rushes the QB, and stops short when he feels a screen and tackles the receiver. He uses his quicks to get down the line and chase a RB down from the backside. He is never going to just stand up an OT and hold position for a LB or Safety. He disrupts and quickly diagnoses the play. He has great stop/start movements and the lateral agility to adjust to the OT's movement. Jason Taylors "weakness" would be against a power running game- running straight at Taylor and getting bodies on him will nullify his huge speed advantage.

then explain why power running games do not get a lot of yards just running at Taylor?

One thing Taylor has is strength. Yes there are plays where he does run passed the runningback, however those are the plays where it is called for him to rush the passer.

 

[BlitPhinFan]

Read up a bit.... People still think he's bad against the run.


I know when he came out he was bad, only becuase he was just rushing the passer....


Now he's a complete stud...

I agree that he has come a long way, but he is not, how you say(the complete stud). Again I am not bashing him, but if he was the complete stud then we would not have had one of the leagues worst run-stopping defenses because we lost the like of Bowens and Chester.

JT just doesn't have the size to help out in the middle. He is a run container meant to funnel the run to the inside, if you have nobody there to stuff it then it's game over so to speak. Bates made improvements by trying to let the OLB cover the outside, but sitlll teams ran up the middle on us somewhat easily.

 

[FIN-IN-RI]

I'm not going to bother going to the link because what you are reasoning out is incorrect. Taylor doesn't get many tackles because he is "good against the run". He get's the tackles because of his quickness and great instincts. He run's by the tackle and get's the RB/QB. He rushes the QB, and stops short when he feels a screen and tackles the receiver. He uses his quicks to get down the line and chase a RB down from the backside. He is never going to just stand up an OT and hold position for a LB or Safety. He disrupts and quickly diagnoses the play. He has great stop/start movements and the lateral agility to adjust to the OT's movement. Jason Taylors "weakness" would be against a power running game- running straight at Taylor and getting bodies on him will nullify his huge speed advantage.

Well, as usual you state the obvious and you didn't back up you argument that JT is weak against the run. In case you haven't noticed over the years.. it was the more elusive, quick runners who did better against the phins D, not the power runners)especially on JTs side). Go ahead, look it up.

 

[BlitPhinFan]

Well, as usual you state the obvious and you didn't back up you argument that JT is weak against the run. In case you haven't noticed over the years.. it was the more elusive, quick runners who did better against the phins D, not the power runners)especially on JTs side). Go ahead, look it up.

I would be interested in seeing those stats. I am too tired to look it up myself . Could you provide me with a link? I am just going off of what I saw in person, nothing else.

ps... like I stated before, I haven't had the pleasure of seeing every game.

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

I agree that he has come a long way, but he is not, how you say(the complete stud). Again I am not bashing him, but if he was the complete stud then we would not have had one of the leagues worst run-stopping defenses because we lost the like of Bowens and Chester.

JT just doesn't have the size to help out in the middle. He is a run container meant to funnel the run to the inside, if you have nobody there to stuff it then it's game over so to speak. Bates made improvements by trying to let the OLB cover the outside, but sitlll teams ran up the middle on us somewhat easily.

How is the defensive end supposed to help up the middle? I am sorry but that does not make any logical sense. If you take the best defensive ends of all time and put them on Miami's team last year teams will still run up the middle against Miami.

 

[FIN-IN-RI]

How is the defensive end supposed to help up the middle? I am sorry but that does not make any logical sense. If you take the best defensive ends of all time and put them on Miami's team last year teams will still run up the middle against Miami.

I gotta say, JT can't stop the run on his own.

 

[FIN-IN-RI]

I would be interested in seeing those stats. I am too tired to look it up myself . Could you provide me with a link? I am just going off of what I saw in person, nothing else.

ps... like I stated before, I haven't had the pleasure of seeing every game.

I don't have any stats, that's why I said for someone to look em up. I'm going by pure memory.. Last year is a bad example because we had 3rd down pass rushers in as our run-stopping DTsr

 

[_dan24]

How is the defensive end supposed to help up the middle? I am sorry but that does not make any logical sense. If you take the best defensive ends of all time and put them on Miami's team last year teams will still run up the middle against Miami.

^^ that

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

I gotta say, JT can't stop the run on his own.

no player can

 

[BlitPhinFan]

I don't have any stats, that's why I said for someone to look em up. I'm going by pure memory.. Last year is a bad example because we had 3rd down pass rushers in as our run-stopping DTsr

If last year is a bad example then all his years in the NFL would be bad examples as he has produced almost the same number of tabkles every year.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/4370

After 1999 that is. Still, not too far off each year.

 

[BennyVW]

ok..time to crunch the numbers...JT's avaerage of his stats over 8 years versus strahans average career stats.....

TOT=M.S(56.4)-JT(57.625) /// solo-MS(44.42) JT(42.75)/// ast-MS(12) JT(14.875) ///PD-MS(2.5)JT(6.5) ///sack MS(9.83)JT(10.0625) ///FF-MS(1.83)JT(2.75) ///INT-MS(.333)JT(.5) ///TD-MS(.1677)JT(0).


This is Very interesting.....JT leads in Total tackles,assisted tackles,passes defended, sacks,forced fumbles and interceptions.

Strahan leads in solo tackles, and touchdowns. obviously there is a difference because jt has 8 seasons and strahan has 12. but it is a good indicator of how very wrong everyone was...except of course JT, and Jimmy.

 

[finfansince72]

The scouting report is pretty much what most people thought of JT coming out of college. Its to his credit that he's become the player that he has. He isnt great against the run but he isnt a liability. Thats about all you can ask of someone that has the responsiblity to get after the Qb like he does. Our scheme, like all good defensive schemes is geared towards "hiding" any weaknesses. We have undersized players in Zach and JT but with quality inside play they are freed to do what they are good at. When we were devasted by injuries our defense suffered obviously. Not too many teams around the NFL would have been great at stopping the run when 4th stringers were manning the inside.
I dont think anyone was really bashing JT, seems some people are a little sensitive. Good debate though.