Let's be frank....
- Thread starter datruth55
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Gonzo, I love you because you keep it real with a cutting wit. But I really take exception to 'hot garbage.'
Disappointment. He's been a disappointment through 2 games. But hot garbage, man? I wont begrudge you of it, or even try to change your mind, but that I just can't agree with.
And I just can't buy into this narrative that a good team was sabotaged by its QB yesterday. I saw a flat team that was poorly coached and couldn't field a credible special teams unit or figure out how to cover Sammy Watkins. With receivers who dropped at least five passes by my count. With a starting tailback who isn't very good. With an offensive line that struggled in the first half the way it did last season. And yes, with a QB who made a number of errant throws. With a coach who gave up on the damn team in the 2nd quarter.
My opinion is that Tannehill's play yesterday was NOT GOOD ENOUGH. But I don't even feel like he was the biggest problem with the Dolphins yesterday. I don't even know how to bridge that gulf.
A lot of folks gave up on Ryan Tannehill yesterday. I am not at that point yet. But I'll tell you where I am at: I'm done with Joe Philbin.
Disappointment. He's been a disappointment through 2 games. But hot garbage, man? I wont begrudge you of it, or even try to change your mind, but that I just can't agree with.
And I just can't buy into this narrative that a good team was sabotaged by its QB yesterday. I saw a flat team that was poorly coached and couldn't field a credible special teams unit or figure out how to cover Sammy Watkins. With receivers who dropped at least five passes by my count. With a starting tailback who isn't very good. With an offensive line that struggled in the first half the way it did last season. And yes, with a QB who made a number of errant throws. With a coach who gave up on the damn team in the 2nd quarter.
My opinion is that Tannehill's play yesterday was NOT GOOD ENOUGH. But I don't even feel like he was the biggest problem with the Dolphins yesterday. I don't even know how to bridge that gulf.
A lot of folks gave up on Ryan Tannehill yesterday. I am not at that point yet. But I'll tell you where I am at: I'm done with Joe Philbin.
Gonzo I am not going to get in some sort of stupid spat with you, but the thread was Datruth's analysis of the whole game not simply RT.
There were way too many uber slow developing plays in that first half. I think Lazor was really unprepared for the protection breakdowns. It is why Philbin basically layed up at the end of the half.
Once Moreno was out and the Bills no longer had to respect the running game it was all over. They were running full steam at RT.
Once they knew we couldnt maintain protection to go deep it became really easy to defend us.
I think it needs to be said that there is still an element of scheme comfort with RT.
Early in the second half when the game was still in balance we went to a lot of those old Muscle memory throws with Hartline and Wallace. RT seemed really comfortable with those throws and I bet we put them in for a reason to settle things down.
I do believe that we will see some growth in RT over the season as he becomes more comfortable in the scheme.
There were way too many uber slow developing plays in that first half. I think Lazor was really unprepared for the protection breakdowns. It is why Philbin basically layed up at the end of the half.
Once Moreno was out and the Bills no longer had to respect the running game it was all over. They were running full steam at RT.
Once they knew we couldnt maintain protection to go deep it became really easy to defend us.
I think it needs to be said that there is still an element of scheme comfort with RT.
Early in the second half when the game was still in balance we went to a lot of those old Muscle memory throws with Hartline and Wallace. RT seemed really comfortable with those throws and I bet we put them in for a reason to settle things down.
I do believe that we will see some growth in RT over the season as he becomes more comfortable in the scheme.
PCmor
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The Steelers gave Wallace a 5-year, $42.5 million offer. When Wallace didn't take it and held out, they gave it to Antonio Brown.
Unfortunately our best YAC receiver (Gibson) is still not 100%. Hartline just stumbles over blades of grass and Tannehill has yet to hit Wallace in stride in over a year now. Clay has had two excellent opportunities to make a lot of YAC but he's dropped both passes that hit him in stride. Like I've said before, Tannehill can hit every receiver on this squad perfectly except Wallace. And at this point that's more on Tannehill than it is Wallace because Tannehill should know by now what type of receiver Wallace is but Wallace still shouldn't be absolved of any blame.
---------- Post added at 11:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------
And at that point Wallace was out. Pittsburgh, with the gesture, just told Wallace hit the road at the end of the season.
Yes, I know what was in the original post, and my original response addressed all of them. datruth and I continued discussing something we disagreed on because it's not all that interesting to discuss the things we agreed on. It's really not that difficult. This is generally how discussions work. If you don't like that we continued to discuss certain aspects that we disagreed upon, that's on you, not me.
I agree, the coaching was pretty bad in the game. I also agree that Moreno was a huge hit, which made the playaction calls nonsensical considering Miller is not and never will be any kind of legitimate running threat (or catching). That's coaching again.
I dont like the "hot garbage" criticism either. Tannehill is not on the level of a Mark Sanchez or Brandon Weeden. I think most people's disappointment is that they have realized Tannehill will never be great...like a top 5 or 10 QB. He's never going to carry the team, defenses wont fear him, and he's not going to make the player's around him better. He's just not that kind of guy, and that's what we were all hoping for. So he's not terrible, but he will never be great either, which is a disappointment to many.
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I still absolutely believe he can perform like a top ten QB. IMO, you either feel like the QB has peaked and is regressing (I do NOT feel this way) or you feel like the QB is finally being coached properly (I DO feel this way). I said during the preseason that I was absolutely floored to hear Lazor's comments when he got here. He arrived and immediately said "This guy's footwork is terrible, we need to fix it." That was the same thing GM_Davenport had mentioned after 2013. How is it that he played QB for FOUR YEARS under Mike Sherman and Zac Taylor and they NEVER noticed this?
We need to see what Lazor can do with Tannehill, and what Tannehill can do under Lazor. I have seen that Bill Lazor has identified problems in Ryan Tannehill's game and is taking steps to correct them -- steps that weren't taken in four years under Sherman/Taylor. I have seen that Ryan Tannehill is getting better on some throws; I have seen that he is making better decisions with the football. And I see that he CONSISTENTLY has the same problem on the crossing throws: they are BEHIND his receivers. I think that is absolutely something that will improve as he becomes more comfortable in the offense and things start to click for him.
IMHO it simply comes down to whether you expect improvement during the season or you don't. I expect improvement.
I never said he was hot garbage in general. IMO, he absolutely was in the bills game. Terrible in every bills game, actually.
I expect improvement, and I have no doubt that Tannehill's best football has yet to come. The problem is that his best football probably isn't good enough to be the elite QB we were all hoping for. And even when he does play his best football, he can't repeat it the following week. The inconsistency alone enough to do him in with the fans.
He's already been done in by the fans.
Everyone does need to understand we are stuck with RT this year probably a portion of next year even if we draft another rookie next year. I sure hope your right and logically it makes some sense that you cannot unwind in a few weeks what it took Sherman made happen for four years. Not implying it is going to work for sure for the naysayers who are to sure to jump on this post that something positive can never happen for RT. The kid does have moxie as much as any QB that I have seen in a Dolphin uniform and is willing to take a hit for the team and bounce back up I guess that is from his days of playing wide reciever. If he does not work out as a starter QB maybe he can play wide reciever and bckup QB someday.
gofins60
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As a fan with no "technical" knowledge of the game, my opinion is not as educated as most on here. But, it seems to me that I'd prefer having a QB whose strengths are Tannehill's weaknesses. I can't see how running QBs can be anything more than a short-term solution... they'll get hurt eventually. I'll take a good pocket QB with accuracy over a Tannehill, RGIII, Wilson, or Kap any day.