Lets Not Forget How Good Patrick Actually Is!

Ghetti13

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I must admit, I often get caught up in these types of frenzies in regards to trading a player and picking up the ever popular high draft pick, but, lets not forget how good Patrick actually is.

Since 1999:
Champ Bailey - 21 picks / 71 def. He will be 27 in a couple months.
Dre Bly - 24 picks / 57 def. He will be 28 in a couple months.
Chris McAlister - 15 picks / 71 def. He will be 28 in the summer.
Mike McKenzie - 20 picks / 62 def. He will be 29 shortly after the draft. (And was acquired for a 2nd round pick last year)
Patrick Surtain - 27 picks / 50 def. He will turn 29 in the summer.

In an off year where he uncharacteristically dropped a few picks, he still came away with four.

Here is my point. How often do we see a reciever running well, anywhere, with the ball when Patrick Surtain has the primary coverage? I see Sam chasing players. Reggie chasing players. But never Patrick. It is almost like he is not on the field. It seems that way for a reason.

He is a true shutdown corner.

There are not many of those in the NFL. Now, when you have one, you better realize such. Patrick is younger than Mike McKenzie (acquired for a 2nd) and statistically more productive than Champ Bailey (Acquired for the equivolent of a high first and second).

We have not known the anguish of having a bad secondary since the years of watching Calvin Jackson and company give recievers fifteen yard cushions on their way to the endzone. Its not a great situation.

I have no doubt that Saban will do what is best for the organization. However, I just think it is important for people to realize what we have and understand the grass is not always greener.
 

Clark Kent

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He wants more money then we can afford. Miami can't give him another market value contract.

It's not about talent... How many times do you poeple need to be told?
 

touborg

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Hostile7 said:
He wants more money then we can afford. Miami can't give him another market value contract.

It's not about talent... How many times do you poeple need to be told?

Yup. Love to keep him, can't afford it.
 

Lazy1

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I agree with you ghetti, Patrick is a damn good player and if saban really wanted to he could make room under the cap for him. Surtain imo should not even be given away for a second... he is too good a player.
 

Ghetti13

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It has everything to do with talent unless a team is in complete cap hell. We are not in that situation. We are letting the Chiefs do some of our negotiating for us, and if they give us a fair deal, Patrick will be a Chief.
 

gofins

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Hostile7 said:
He wants more money then we can afford. Miami can't give him another market value contract.

It's not about talent... How many times do you poeple need to be told?
I'd love to find the cap room to keep him. But Ghetti13 didn't say anything about paying him. He just pointed out how good Surtain is.
 

Joey 22

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While I think that in a zone scheme Pat will be more a luxury than a need and that Will Poole will fair out real well, its not really how much his value is for us, but how much value he has for the team acquiring him. Surtain single handedly can take that pathetic KC D into a playoff D. He is worth like 2 or 3 more wins for the Chefs (Im mocking their nick) so we have to acquire someting comparable, I think a 2nd and 5th both this year would be enough.
 

gofins

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After seeing the comparisons Surtain is worth NO LESS THAN a 2nd round pick.
 

gofins

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Joey 22 said:
While I think that in a zone scheme Pat will be more a luxury than a need and that Will Poole will fair out real well, its not really how much his value is for us, but how much value he has for the team acquiring him. Surtain single handedly can take that pathetic KC D into a playoff D. He is worth like 2 or 3 more wins for the Chefs (Im mocking their nick) so we have to acquire someting comparable, I think a 2nd and 5th both this year would be enough.
I'm excited to see Will Poole in action full time.
 

marinotoclayton

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Ghetti13 said:
Here is my point. How often do we see a reciever running well, anywhere, with the ball when Patrick Surtain has the primary coverage? I see Sam chasing players. Reggie chasing players. But never Patrick. It is almost like he is not on the field. It seems that way for a reason. .
For one Madison also has been known to make up the ground when he is behind a receiver. Madison is just as good as pat also. And they were playing in a scheme that played to the defenses favor. Now after a couple of rule changes for offenses to score more points. Pat has become more expendable because of his contract. The game has changed and corners are a dime a dozen.

Don't get me wrong I like Pat Surtain too. But he is not the entire defense. Which has also changed this year thanks to Saban coming in. Pat is not worth that much cash. Sorry a younger guy can do just a good of a job if taught well.
 

chiefshuddle

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I gotta say, I don't think there is such thing as a "shutdown corner" specifically these days with the rule emphasis but Surtain is certainly a good one.

I was thinking that while Surtain does make a lot of big plays, doesn't he give up quite a few too on missed picks?

I don't get to watch Miami play too often but I was thinking that Surtain was one of those corners that prefers to go for the interception over batting down the ball.
 

Ghetti13

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You either have the type of playmaking skills Patrick has or you don't. Being taught well will not change that. If the scheme was so great I would have expected...umm....any other corner at any other time this past season to make an interception. Yet still, Patrick was the only player who accomplished that feat. The corners had 4 picks this season. Patrick had 4. Yet, they were all "taught well" by the same person.
 

Sean LaChapelle

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those stats are nothing if he gets to play in the AFC West. Twice a year against Jake "I even throw ints with my left hand" Plummer willl put him in The Hall
 

marinotoclayton

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Ghetti13 said:
You either have the type of playmaking skills Patrick has or you don't. Being taught well will not change that. If the scheme was so great I would have expected...umm....any other corner at any other time this past season to make an interception. Yet still, Patrick was the only player who accomplished that feat. The corners had 4 picks this season. Patrick had 4. Yet, they were all "taught well" by the same person.
You still miss the point though. The rules have changed in favor of offenses. And just because Pat had more picks does not mean a whole lot. That might just mean that he was in a better position or quaterbacks don't fear throwing to his side.

And I still think a young guy can do just as well and not cost as much cash.
 

Ghetti13

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You said...."That might just mean he is in a better position...." Exactly. He has an innate ability to know where to be and how to make plays.

However, the bottom line is apparently a difference of opinion. You think Surtain is simply and interchangeable part, where I think that he is a huge asset, and even more so when Saban institutes a defense that pressures the quarterback.
 
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