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Marino or Montana

Originally posted by Justasportsfan
None. Why is it Shula never got one or ever had a decent running game ? That's because the fins would rather live and die with Marino's arm.

As far as the bills fans and media, they are no different from you. What makes such an expert over these guys? Are you telling me all a qb has to do is throw? I think he's got more responsibilities than a kicker. I could be wrong about that :rolleyes:

So Marino is to blame for the lack of talent at RB? Before you answer, remember that you stated that MARINO wasn't going to let the team run.

Of course a QB does more than throw the football. He runs the passing plays. That includes reading the defense, finding the open receiver, and delivering the ball accurately and on time. He also must read where the pass rushers will come from and adjust his position, receiver selection, and timing accordingly. In addition, they must be able to audible from a bad play to a good play when necessary. Some QBs can also help the team by running with the football.

Other than the last part, IMO Marino was the best at all of the rest. His vision, speed at reading defenses, ability to sense the pass rush, and deliver the football was unmatched. He was fearless in the face of the rush and absolutely confident in his ability to make the throws necessary.

You are entitled to think that Marino wasn't the best QB, but if you are going to repeat ridiculous claims, please be prepared to back them up. My evidence that Marino was not the cause of the running game failures was the simple fact that none of the Dolphin RBs were effective anywhere. What is your evidence that Marino was the cause?

One more thing, Shula made several attempts at acquiring talent at RB during the Marino era. They just weren't successful:

Lorenzo Hampton - 1st round 1985
Sammy Smith - 1st round 1989
the acquisitions of David Overstreet and Bobby Humphrey.

All of that ignores the fact that the bigger problem was on defense.

So, are you prepared to back up your claim or should I just forget about it?
 
So Marino is to blame for the lack of talent at RB? Before you answer, remember that you stated that MARINO wasn't going to let the team run.
He's not incharge of drafting hiring players. No , he wasn't to blame for lack of talent but he'd rather not run. He couldn't sell the run if his life depended on it. Read between the lines.







I worked for Don Shula for 4 years. I've met Marino a few times when he came in the restaurant for a few drinks and yes, football was discussed every now and then . He hardly wanted to run the ball and said he'd rather try to win it himself. He trusted no one. If you honestly don't think Marino had the reputation of being self-centered , you really need to get out of buffalo sometime and go to So. Fla where people knew him well.

Originally posted by FinfanInBuffalo



Other than the last part, IMO Marino was the best at all of the rest. His vision, speed at reading defenses, ability to sense the pass rush, and deliver the football was unmatched.


BS, Kelly ran his own plays and changed them as he saw fit . 4 sb's of doing this will make a great case that Kelly was a better field general. He didn't mind giving the ball up. Just so you know,

Don't get me wrong Marino is a way better qb than Kelly but you can't say Marino was unmatched in that criteria. 4 sb's will back that up.

A great passing arm is not the only criteria that makes a qb good. Rob Johnson has a rocket arm.
 
Originally posted by Justasportsfan
He's not incharge of drafting hiring players. No , he wasn't to blame for lack of talent but he'd rather not run. He couldn't sell the run if his life depended on it. Read between the lines.

I worked for Don Shula for 4 years. I've met Marino a few times when he came in the restaurant for a few drinks and yes, football was discussed every now and then . He hardly wanted to run the ball and said he'd rather try to win it himself. He trusted no one. If you honestly don't think Marino had the reputation of being self-centered , you really need to get out of buffalo sometime and go to So. Fla where people knew him well.


Totally irrelevant. I have no doubt that he wanted to pass on every play. The fact remains that every year they tried to run the ball and were ineffective at it. And that was due to lack of talent.

Originally posted by Justasportsfan
BS, Kelly ran his own plays and changed them as he saw fit . 4 sb's of doing this will make a great case that Kelly was a better field general. He didn't mind giving the ball up. Just so you know,

Don't get me wrong Marino is a way better qb than Kelly but you can't say Marino was unmatched in that criteria. 4 sb's will back that up.

A great passing arm is not the only criteria that makes a qb good. Rob Johnson has a rocket arm.

The SBs were team achievements. Kelly was only effective during the years that they had a great running game. Kelly looked like a great play caller because all of the plays worked, not because he called great plays. They had a remarkable amount of talent during those years and they were very lucky to have very few serious injuries.

Why would you bother to make the statement that a great passing arm is not the only criteria? Haven't I already made that abundantly clear?
 
Originally posted by FinfanInBuffalo




The SBs were team achievements. Kelly was only effective during the years that they had a great running game. Kelly looked like a great play caller because all of the plays worked, not because he called great plays. They had a remarkable amount of talent during those years and they were very lucky to have very few serious injuries.

Why would you bother to make the statement that a great passing arm is not the only criteria? Haven't I already made that abundantly clear?

NOt when you need to change the play at the line of scimmage. even Marv Levy said, Kelly was a coach on the field because he could see clearly enough to change the plays w/o a huddle.

Other than the last part, IMO Marino was the best at all of the rest. His vision, speed at reading defenses, ability to sense the pass rush, and deliver the football was unmatched.
This is the part where you say he is unmateched which would add up to your saying he was the best.

Even if the odds are stacked against the wr in a situation Marino will still make that pass therefore making him the best passer. Do not mistake that for being the greatest reader of defenses.

It's useless trying to argue who's best. I think Montana had a little bit of everything but Marino is not far behind as being the best. It's just my opinion. Even some finfans seem to agree he is not the best qb but the best passer.
 
i don't think you can pick just one guy and say he is the best there are just too many great QB's to say that one is the best.
 
that is a good point, however I just would like to see once, just once, the pass that was right to the bengals safty during the drive
 
Originally posted by Justasportsfan


NOt when you need to change the play at the line of scimmage. even Marv Levy said, Kelly was a coach on the field because he could see clearly enough to change the plays w/o a huddle.

FYI. ALL QBs CHANGE THE PLAYS WITHOUT A HUDDLE. An audible occurs at the line of scrimmage. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Justasportsfan
This is the part where you say he is unmateched which would add up to your saying he was the best.

Even if the odds are stacked against the wr in a situation Marino will still make that pass therefore making him the best passer. Do not mistake that for being the greatest reader of defenses.

We will just have to disagree on the part about reading defenses. I have the video about Dan's career. Bill Walsh specifically addresses Marino's abilities in field vision, finding the weakness in the defense and delivering the football.

I don't think he made a career out of throwing great passes to the wrong player.

Originally posted by Justasportsfan
It's useless trying to argue who's best. I think Montana had a little bit of everything but Marino is not far behind as being the best. It's just my opinion. Even some finfans seem to agree he is not the best qb but the best passer.
The statement that Marino was the best passer includes all of the characteristics that I described. Notice that no one calls him the best thrower.

Marino's only weakness was that he was not a threat to run with the football. Then again, every running QB that comes along has coaches trying to stop them from running. So you tell me which is more important.

All of this discussion blurs the main issue that I addressed with your original post. Is that the sound of a Bills fan backing away from a post that I hear in the background?

BTW, to all you Fin fans, if you do not have the video about Marino's career GET IT!

I forgot how truely remarkable he was.

One more thing about Marino. He was being compared to alltime greats earlier in his career than any QB in history. The rest of the league saw greatness in him from the very first snap. I don't think he will ever be matched.
 
Marino or Montana?

I like Marino, but if you were willing to give a Whole State for him I’d have to take the State.

Instead of Montana though, could I have Pennsylvania?

You see Pennsylvania has produced more great QBs than Montana.
There was:
George Blanda who could also kick FGs,
Johnny Unitas who many old schoolers still think was the best
Jim Kelly a Bill, but nobody’s perfect
Joe Namath a Jet who beat my man Shula in the Guaranteed SB
Dan Marino a Dolphin with more records than I can type
Jeff Hostetler who did win a Superbowl against Kelly and also
Joe Montana.

Oh…..You meant thaaaaat Montana. I’m sorry. Nevermind.
 
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