Marino was great, but Sammy Baugh is the greatest QB of all time

[Joe Dolfan]

Seems to me that somebody is just jealous because they didn't have one of the greatest QB's of all-time on their team.

Don't get me wrong; this guy's a troll.

But Kelly is in the Hall of Fame. He is one of the greatest. Not a short list of 'greatest', but one of them, regardless.

 

[chillin6776]

Are you trying to equate Dan Marino's hall of fame day to the death of Jim Kelly's son?

Jim Kellys son wasn't even mentioned

 

[bakedmatt]

Watched countless NFL Films Documentaries on the guy! Baugh changed the NFL forever, made the forward pass a weapon that was actually used. Without Baugh it's possible that Marino would have never had the chance to be great because the league would have always been running based.

A great revolutionary. That's awesome. He was very important to the evolution of the sport and I thank him for that. I'm not convinced that his changing the game makes him the best QB in history, however. And I don't buy that the game wouldn't have changed if it wasn't for his influence. Someone would have done it eventually. It's not like the game changed to passing overnight either. Football remained predominantly a running game until the 1980s.

 

[GreenMonster]

Truth has to be proven friend. So far you haven't done that. If it's so obvious it shouldn't be hard.

Is Don Hutson the greatest WR of all-time. NO, Jerry Rice is even though Hutson finished his career with 200 catches more than the next closest player and totally dominated the WR position in a time when they hardly threw the ball.

 

[BlitPhinFan]

Jim Kellys son wasn't even mentioned

:confused: Young and Marino both mentioned the death of "Hunter" during their induction speeches. I feel for the Kelly familly, to lose a son to a disease like that is just devistating.

 

[Vessel17]

The premise of your argument for Baugh is consistently founded upon the fact that:
a) he could throw the ball well (just like a thousand other NFL QBs)
b) he did it when nobody else had figured it out yet...he was the first real passing QB

Those points are well taken, but being the first to do something shouldn't be such a huge multiplying factor. There are so many other things that would have to be accounted for as well, if you're being fair:
a) Did the same "newness" of Baugh's abilities enhance his probability of success?...i.e. Baugh is lauded for being the first QB to use the forward pass, and that's great, but that means opposing defenses weren't as prepared to defend it, b/c it was a new thing...and Baugh benefited from it.
b)Baugh played when defensive schemes, and offensive schemes were much simpler.

First, thanks for the good post. I would first reiterate that the determining factor of greatness is not statistics, rather impact. If you play the game in a way that changes it forever, then you are a great player. Baugh was great because he set the precedent. Were defenses prepared for passing? After his first season I would guarantee you that they were. But any advantage that Baugh had with inexperienced defenses would be taken away because his offense would also not have an advanced passing scheme. It's not like Baugh was running the Fun 'n Gun out of 3 WR sets with motion. The guy was passing out of a T-formation. Remember also that the rules were not friendly to passing. A dropped pass in an endzone resulted in a safety. DB's could maul recievers (even worse than what the Pat's do now! :D) and any defender could hit a QB after the ball was thrown. Due to Baugh's success every team began to pass. It made the league more exciting and took what was a regional fledgling league and gave it national following. It was the first time that professional football started to become more popular than college football.

I'm not taking from Baugh's accomplishments, he deserves to be in the HOF, but don't launch the guy forward of DM/JM/JU/JE just b/c he was born first and was in the right place at the right time. When it comes right down to it guys, it's apples and oranges. They can't be compared, or at least not fairly.

There have been thousands of people to break the sound barrier since Chuck Yeager. But we remember Yeager because he was the first to do it. Many people have made improvements to the lightbulb, but we remember Edison. Football is not nearly as important as those discoveries and I'm not trying to say that it is. But the inventors and innovators should be remembered as the greatest IMHO. QB's now stand on the shoulder's of giants, the greatest giant being Sammy Baugh.


with that I'm going to bed... night all. congrat's again.

 

[Sgt.FinFan]

Was the 1st cave man to take a dump the best at it ?

 

[Joe Dolfan]

Was the 1st cave man to take a dump the best at it ?

I'm the greatest.

 

[byroan]

I'm the greatest.

Please. I can take a dump with my eyes closed and both hands tied behind my back.

 

[Vessel17]

Jim Kellys son wasn't even mentioned

He was alluded to here...

A troll would come on here the day Marino is going into the HOF and
start sh*t like this. Just like a troll would be someone who goes to a
bills site yesterday and bashes Kelly. There is a time and place for
things.

Sarge said that me coming in on Dan's big day and talking about Sammy Baugh was the same as someone going onto a Bill's board and saying that Jim Kelly sucked after the death of his son. I find the analogy to not only logically be flawed but to be in poor taste. Maybe he meant it differently but he didn't seem to want to clarify his position.

 

[AtlantaPhin]

Prove me wrong... did Marino change the game like Baugh did? Victories, Championships, and stats are great. But lasting change and impact to a sport is what defines greatness. That's why Mike Ditka and Kellen Winslow Sr. will always be the greatest TE's. Don Hutson will be the greatest WR.

You want a player that changed the game than look at none other than Marino. Still the only player to pass for 5,000 yards in a season when 4,000 was considered awesome. He also single handidly shattered the single season TD pass mark of 36 by passing Johnny Unitas in the 13th game of his season when Unitas had 36 in 14 games. Please let it be noted Marino had 42 by his 14th game. While I will acknowledge having watched film of Baugh, I also notice while watching those films every player on the field seemed to be the same size in the NFL then. You can't compare that era to today's game of specialization. They didn't have pass rushers and nickel packages in Baughs era.

It's true Baugh was a great passer in his era that clearly emphasized the run but are we now going to say after what we learned about Benny Friedman today that he too, was better than Marino? Don't think so. Whoever made the Cousy to Jordan comment couldn't be anymore right here. You are simply trying to compare 2 players that aren't worth comparing in different era's. They were both great in their era's.

 

[Vessel17]

Football remained predominantly a running game until the 1980s.

Namath threw for more than 4,000 yds in 12 games in 1967. And if you look at the Los Angelos Chargers of the old AFL you'll see that the AFL was a more passing oriented league. (Except for Buffalo, Cookie Gilchrist and their defense were their main weapons).

 

[mf52dolphin]

:shakeno:

Forward pass was legalized in 1916 if I remember right. Read the above and you'll see that he did in fact pass, thus it must have been implemented.

:shakeno: Actually the forward pass was legalized in 1906. The first quarterback was a guy named Brad Robinson at St Louis University. I saw a picture of him and his throwing form and body type looked very similar to Dan Marino's.

 

[Sgt.FinFan]

with that I'm going to bed... night all. congrat's again.

Wow, you keep typing while you sleep, amazing.

 

[Vessel17]

:shakeno:


:shakeno: Actually the forward pass was legalized in 1906. The first quarterback was a guy named Brad Robinson at St Louis University. I saw a picture of him and his throwing form and body type looked very similar to Dan Marino's.

Sorry, I was pretty close though for me just trying to remember the year off the top of my head.