Marino was great, but Sammy Baugh is the greatest QB of all time

[Gonzo]

First, thanks for the good post. I would first reiterate that the determining factor of greatness is not statistics, rather impact.

This is YOUR basis for determining the greatest ever. It's subjective. Mine is hairstyles, and Marino surpassed all during his early SFLB phase.

 

[Vessel17]

Wow, you keep typing while you sleep, amazing.

I love this stuff... but this really is the last post for awhile. I hope this doesn't get moved to another page, I think it's a good discussion. Perhaps in the end you can't compare the two statistically, so I still would say that you need to look at impact. I just see Baugh as having more. Oh well, at least more people know about the guy. I was talking football with one guy the other day, mentioned Baugh and was met with a blank expression. There was so much awesome stuff that happened in football's early years. Bronko Nagurski, Red Grange, Ernie Nevers, Crazy Legs... I wish I could have seen them play.

 

[AtlantaPhin]

I love this stuff... but this really is the last post for awhile. I hope this doesn't get moved to another page, I think it's a good discussion. Perhaps in the end you can't compare the two statistically, so I still would say that you need to look at impact. I just see Baugh as having more. Oh well, at least more people know about the guy. I was talking football with one guy the other day, mentioned Baugh and was met with a blank expression. There was so much awesome stuff that happened in football's early years. Bronko Nagurski, Red Grange, Ernie Nevers, Crazy Legs... I wish I could have seen them play.

You can watch them play. Go to the Hall of Fame as there's some limited footage available of almost all of them. If not there then on NFL Network or NFL Films.com. Watch ESPN around 2-4 when nothing else is on. They always have flashbacks. That said, you should also know Baugh was a serious biggott and a staunch opponent of letting black players in the NFL. Baugh came into the league in 1937 and was also raised in Texas where he learned nothing but ignorance and didn't apologize for it in his later years. Thought you should know before claiming him the best ever. I feel Marino today characterized a human being better than that and I'll take that anyday.

 

[bakedmatt]

Namath threw for more than 4,000 yds in 12 games in 1967. And if you look at the Los Angelos Chargers of the old AFL you'll see that the AFL was a more passing oriented league. (Except for Buffalo, Cookie Gilchrist and their defense were their main weapons).

That's great news. Really.


I maintain, football remained predominantly a running game until the 1980s.

 

[d-day]

Was the 1st cave man to take a dump the best at it ?

 

[Roman529]

Maybe, then again maybe the Phins should have done the same. They might have pulled out a victory over Buffalo in AFC Championship games.

Vessel, Since you are only 22, you were not around in the 1970's.....when the Dolphins were 20-0 against your Bills.

 

[PhinsPhan]

You're 22, and you're trying to argue that a guy that played 70 years ago is the greatest of all time. Now prove me wrong here, and tell me that you've seen him play...just once...

this is just it.

I like your approach and for all I know you could be right about baugh being the best. But how would you know? I cant comment on that because I wasnt even old enough to watch football for some of Marinos early career. If I cant even comment on some of Marinos best years how could I comment on Baugh who played before my Dad was even born.

 

[finnyboy002]

Wrong, the man that changed the NFL was [size=-1]Benny Friedman. He set all the records for passing long before Baugh came around. Did you not get your history lesson today during the induction of Friedman into the Hall of Fame?

Sammy Baugh came after Friedman set the record for passing TDs in the NFL. Baugh should thank Benny for the rule changes put in place. I think you need to read those chapters in history over again.
[/size]

ahem, :0wned:

Secondly, you keep going back to "impact." If Baugh had such a great impact why doesn't he stand out from all the other HOF QB's? I'll tell you what stands out.

Most career pass attempts

1. Dan Marino -- 8,358

2. John Elway -- 7,250

3. Warren Moon -- 6,789


Most career completions

1. Dan Marino -- 4,967

2. John Elway -- 4,123

3. Warren Moon -- 3,972



Most career passing yards

1. Dan Marino -- 61,361

2. John Elway -- 51,475

3. Warren Moon -- 49,097



Most career touchdown passes

1. Dan Marino -- 420

2. Fran Tarkenton -- 342

3. John Elway -- 300



Highest passer rating, rookie

1. Dan Marino (1983) -- 96.0

2. Greg Cook (1969, Cincinnati) -- 88.2

3. Charlie Conerly (1948, N.Y. Giants) -- 84.0



Highest completion percentage, rookie

1. Dan Marino (1983) -- 58.45

2. Jim McMahon (1982, Chicago) -- 57.14

3. Charlie Batch (1998, Detroit) -- 57.10



Most passing yards, season

1. Dan Marino (1984) -- 5,084

2. Dan Fouts (1981, San Diego) -- 4,802

3. Dan Marino (1986) -- 4,746



Most 400-yard passing games, career

1. Dan Marino -- 13

2. Joe Montana -- 7

2.Warren Moon -- 7



Most 400-yard passing games, season

1. Dan Marino (1984) -- 4

2. Dan Marino (1986) -- 3

3. Several players -- 2



Most 300-yard passing games, career

1. Dan Marino -- 63

2. Dan Fouts -- 51

3. Warren Moon -- 49



Most 3,000-yard passing seasons

1. Dan Marino -- 13 (1984-92, 1994-95, 1997-98)

2. John Elway -- 12

3. Warren Moon -- 9



Most seasons leading league, completions

1. Dan Marino -- 6 (1984-86, '88, '92, '97)

2. Sammy Baugh -- 5

3. George Blanda -- 4



Most games, four or more touchdown passes, career

1. Dan Marino -- 21

2. Johnny Unitas -- 17

3. George Blanda -- 13



Most games, four or more touchdown passes, season

1. Dan Marino (1984) -- 6

2. Dan Marino (1986) -- 5

2.Brett Favre (1996) -- 5



Most seasons leading league, attempts

1. Dan Marino -- 5 (1984, '86, '88, '92, '97)

2. Sammy Baugh -- 4

2.Johnny Unitas -- 4



Most seasons, 20 or more touchdown passes

1. Dan Marino -- 13 (1983-92, 1994-95, '98)

2. Johnny Unitas -- 8

3. Five players tied at 7



Fewest games needed to reach 100 touchdown passes

1. Dan Marino -- 44


Fewest games to reach 200 touchdown passes

1. Dan Marino -- 89

2. Brett Favre -- 107

3. Johnny Unitas -- 121


Fewest games needed to reach 300 touchdown passes

1. Dan Marino -- 157

2. Fran Tarkenton -- 217

3. John Elway -- 234


Most consecutive seasons, 3,000 or more yards passing

1. Dan Marino -- 9 (1984-92)

2. John Elway -- 7


Most games, four or more touchdown passes, career

1. Dan Marino -- 21

2. Johnny Unitas -- 17

3. George Blanda -- 13


Most seasons, 40 or more touchdown passes

1. Dan Marino -- 2 (1984, 1986)

2. Kurt Warner -- 1 (1999


Most consecutive seasons, 20 or more touchdown passes

1. Dan Marino -- 10 (1983-92)



Marino is tied for the following records:
Most seasons leading league, yards gained: 5 (1984-86, '88, '92), with Sonny Jurgenson.
Most consecutive seasons leading league, completions: 3 (1984-86), with George Blanda.
Most consecutive games, 400 or more yards passing: 2 (1984), with Dan Fouts.
Most consecutive seasons, 4,000 or more yards passing: 3 (1984-86), with Dan Fouts.
Most games, 300 or more yards passing, season: 9 (1984), with Warren Moon.

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How's that for standing out? Or is that not enough "impact" for you?

No? Well in my search for that long list of Marino records, I stumbled across this ESPN Classic article entitled "Marino's Golden Arm Changed the Game." Maybe before you skip back to 1921 or whatever year it was that Sammy Baugh had an impact, you should study the years 1983-2000 and how Marino changed the game of football.

http://espn.go.com/classic/biography/s/Marino_Dan.html

 

[Muck]

Prove me wrong... did Marino change the game like Baugh did? Victories, Championships, and stats are great. But lasting change and impact to a sport is what defines greatness. That's why Mike Ditka and Kellen Winslow Sr. will always be the greatest TE's. Don Hutson will be the greatest WR.

Did Michael Jordan change the game of basketball??

No. But he was better than any player who ever played that game.

Unless, of course, you don't feel that Jordan was the best ever. I suppose George Mikan, rest his soul, was better because he changed how the game was played.