MERGED: Dolphins top of the list in the NFL for teams losing fans

[Gonzo]

I understand there are certain "problems" that exist in Miami than other cities. I also understand there is a big population of transplants which is why I am no longer surprised when 25-30% of the fans in the stands are rooting for the away team. I am definitely not surprised that they are expecting 20,000 Patriots fans this weekend.

At the same time, I think there are some who use excuses to try and validate the poor local fan support. The idea that Miami is so full of other things to do but other cities in the USA have nothing besides football is just plain ignorant. They act like people in the North part of the country just live in igloos and are blessed to be able to attend a sporting event, that type of thinking is disrespectful. Where I live, I don't have a beach right down the road, but do people in Miami have ski slopes? How about hiking mountains? I can go to Hershey Park in a acceptable amount of time, or visit the historic Gettysburg. We have clubs and casinos also. You don't need beaches and warm weather to have fun, there are just different ways to have fun in different parts of the country. That is why I ignore that "excuse" in debating this issue with attendance.

I know Miami has economic problems, well, so does the entire country. People are out of work up here, just like they are down there. I also know that winning will increase attendance, however we all know that doesn't completely solve the issue. The Dolphins/Colts playoff game in 2000 was not a sellout and was blacked out. Even the recent playoff game in 2008 against the Ravens struggled to sell out and that was following an 11-5 AFC East Championship regular season. Winning obviously is not going to completely solve all the problems, because we have seen these problems during winning and playoff seasons.

The accusation that I "hate" the people of Miami and want the team to move is just a lazy attempt to try and attack me personally. I love the state of Florida, I spend about an accumulation of a month during the year in the state. Not for business, but because I like to be there. I like the city of Miami and its people and can't wait until the next time I am able to get down to the area. I am embarrassed to see the stadium attendance so bad, especially when I see the local Eagles sucking this season with far better attendance. Or seeing the Buffalo Bills with solid attendance for our Thursday game a couple of weeks ago. All I ever want is to see a packed house in Miami and a true home field advantage. Instead the Dolphins are a punch line when it comes to attendance and the "empty orange seats". I want the Dolphins to always remain in Miami with their strong history, but I do fear that if things don't improve with attendance that in a decade from now we could be talking about the NFL team that used to be in Miami. I don't want them to move, I fear that could be on the table in the future.

No, you clearly don't understand. You also clearly don't understand how a business like a sports team works. The fact that you clearly expect people to keep paying crazy amounts of money on a totally ****ty product every single year, no matter what, indicates that you most definitely do not understand.

Regarding middle America, again you completely disregard demographics and the fact that you have families that have lived around places like Philly for multiple generations. They are brought up to have undying support to their local team not matter what ( ). They put their teams on some weird pedestal and can't believe that others don't do that. They forget that it is first and foremost a business, an entertainment business. Hey, maybe you're entertained by **** football. Maybe you enjoyed the past decade as much as you did the Marino years. But that's not the mentality you'll find everywhere else. That won't happen in a place like Miami. Ever. If a team loses it's support it's because it's been a **** ball of horrible football for a few years, in the case of our beloved Miami Dolphins, it's been over a decade. Won't work. The people they need to cater too and get into the stands aren't people that grew up on Dolphins football and they don't come from generations of Dolphins fans that grew up in the area and never left (I won't get into the demographics shift because I already did and it was disregarded).

So, save you're patronizing nonsense. I guarantee nobody there gives a **** about how disappointed you are in them. They won't support a perennial loser. Call it fairweather, call it fickle, call it whatever the hell you want; but the fact is that the Miami Dolphins and other sports teams are BUSINESSES. That requires knowing their market. People will only come to watch exciting football? Here's an idea, field exciting football! Introduce great football to the new generations of Miami(ans?). Make moves that will lead to a winning team. Sorry, but drafting a cornfed lineman over QB indicates that they clearly haven't known how to do that. Hopefully they're heading in the right direction, but until they do, expect to see the stands empty. Expect to continue being "disappointed" in the locals. The team isn't going anywhere. I have no doubt Ross knows exactly what kind of market it is. He knows just how much this team can make (already makes despite low attendance) once they field a perennial winner. So, no, there's no serious threat.

 

[roy_miami]

The Dolphins moving is wild speculation. Jacksonville may very well wind up in London and the logical choice for L.A. is the Chargers. If you follow what is going on with the possibilities of franchise movement you'll realize that those two scenarios are most likely in any future movement.

I would have agreed with you until I saw that 60 minutes piece on the Jags owner, it doesn't look like he's planning on going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[JCane]

But insofar as the crowd impacts the game, the Dolphins do themselves no favors having a bad stadium in a bad location with a bad product on the field. That special combination of variables makes fewer people show up, which makes the team worse, which makes fewer people show up, and so on. It's a slow death spiral and the team has been in it for the better part of a decade.

Like I said, it's the team's job to make people want to show up. Realizing the situation they're in would be a start, but they've shown no signs of it. If it takes yuppies showing up for the team to win, then we better start appealing to some ****ing yuppies.

Just more and more examples of a franchise wanting to make a profit on the business side and being successful at it, yet not knowing how to grow their business.

"Special combination." You said it. Bad stadium. Bad location. That's a terrible mix for anyone trying to market their product to a consumer. Things change. And some fans get it and some don't. The NFL is a billion dollar business and they're always looking to make more. That's the reason for the new rule changes that benefit the offenses. Offenses bring big television ratings which bring in more money. We're not fans anymore, we're consumers.

 

[finomenal]

Just more and more examples of a franchise wanting to make a profit on the business side and being successful at it, yet not knowing how to grow their business.

"Special combination." You said it. Bad stadium. Bad location. That's a terrible mix for anyone trying to market their product to a consumer. Things change. And some fans get it and some don't. The NFL is a billion dollar business and they're always looking to make more. That's the reason for the new rule changes that benefit the offenses. Offenses bring big television ratings which bring in more money. We're not fans anymore, we're consumers.

Again, let's not give the finger pointers room for nuance. Let's stay focused on the big problem. They don't win. They haven't been a winning franchise for a decade except for one year when Pennington fell from the sky. This town supports winners.

 

[Finland]

Why are the Dolphins more deserving than teams like the Bills, Chiefs, Rams, Raiders, Jaguars, Buccaneers, Browns, Redskins, Lions, etc.?

Well deserved is not "more deserving".

 

[JCane]

Again, let's not give the finger pointers room for nuance. Let's stay focused on the big problem. They don't win. They haven't been a winning franchise for a decade except for one year when Pennington fell from the sky. This town supports winners.

Winning is the biggest problem without doubt. That's a 75k+ seat stadium. Winning football games and competing on a year in, year out basis will regularly put 65k+ in the stadium. Right now we average 55k which is roughly 75% of total capacity.

But then you have contributing problems which are smaller problems, yet still very much so a problem. Ticket prices, scorching heat, disconnect from the players, etc. It really pisses me off that now that the Marlins have left Jimmy Buffett Beer Stand Stadium, we still have that HUGE gap between the first row of seats and the sideline.

Then you have what TheWalrus referred to as "special combinations" such as stadium experience and bad location. I like that phrase "special combination." If a bad stadium in a bad location has bad parking, I can fix the bad parking by changing the way traffic funnels in and out of my lots. However, I still have a bad stadium in a bad location with easy access parking.

 

[Daytona Fin]

But insofar as the crowd impacts the game, the Dolphins do themselves no favors having a bad stadium in a bad location with a bad product on the field. That special combination of variables makes fewer people show up, which makes the team worse, which makes fewer people show up, and so on.
.

Lol at the bad stadium excuse and bad location excuse. Who the hell really cares where the stadium is located? Are you going to the game or are you looking to buy a house? It's a football game not a hollywood tour bus ride. Go to the game and leave like everybody else. Are you planning on camping out in the parking lot and walking the streets at night.

As far as the bad stadium excuse. That's a personal preference issue. If the stadium is keeping you from going to the games then stay home , we don't need fans at the game that are more concerned with the color of the bathroom walls than the actual game.

 

[JCane]

Lol at the bad stadium excuse and bad location excuse. Who the hell really cares where the stadium is located? Are you going to the game or are you looking to buy a house? It's a football game not a hollywood tour bus ride. Go to the game and leave like everybody else. Are you planning on camping out in the parking lot and walking the streets at night.

As far as the bad stadium excuse. That's a personal preference issue. If the stadium is keeping you from going to the games then stay home , we don't need fans at the game that are more concerned with the color of the bathroom walls than the actual game.

Probably the people who have to commute there.

I hate going to that stadium.

 

[Daytona Fin]

Probably the people who have to commute there.

I hate going to that stadium.

Most of the fans , or should i say most of the past season ticket holders, reside north of miami, lauderdale, west palm,on up I-95. It's a shorter drive than going deep into miami. It's not pretty but is a better access location for those fans. I'm like you I loved the orange bowl and was brought up as dolphin fan in that stadium. At some point we have to let it go and deal with what we have now. It doesn't look like we are getting a new home anytime soon, so we have to embrace what we have, there's really no other solution other than not going. But as usual , these threads can be summed up in one sentence. Just win baby.

 

[Vaark]

It would be so much easier and preferable all around to build a new state of the art stadium off the Sawgrass/ I 75 near the BB&T Center in Sunrise where the Panthers play. It's a much better, safer location with a lot more to do around it, a fast clear shot across on 595 from the beach or I95.. or from the west coast soon after coming off Alligator Alley. It's more accessible from PB County and beyond and not an awful commute further for Miami folks. Situating it on the edge of the Everglades right in the center of the tri county market is the ticket for renewed enthusiasm and consequent success if fielding a decent team.

 

[Gonzo]

Lol at the bad stadium excuse and bad location excuse. Who the hell really cares where the stadium is located? Are you going to the game or are you looking to buy a house? It's a football game not a hollywood tour bus ride. Go to the game and leave like everybody else. Are you planning on camping out in the parking lot and walking the streets at night.

As far as the bad stadium excuse. That's a personal preference issue. If the stadium is keeping you from going to the games then stay home , we don't need fans at the game that are more concerned with the color of the bathroom walls than the actual game.

I certainly hope they are not attempting to limit the fans they "want" to those that fit a certain criteria. Getting to and from that stadium is a nightmare compared to many others I've been to. I couldn't imagine going with kids. Just one of the many small things that all add up to a big problem. But, I can see how it's much easier/more convenient to just say the local fanbase sucks. All I know is, if that's the view Ross and Co. are taking as well, good luck addressing it.

 

[TheWalrus]

Lol at the bad stadium excuse and bad location excuse. Who the hell really cares where the stadium is located? Are you going to the game or are you looking to buy a house? It's a football game not a hollywood tour bus ride. Go to the game and leave like everybody else. Are you planning on camping out in the parking lot and walking the streets at night.

As far as the bad stadium excuse. That's a personal preference issue. If the stadium is keeping you from going to the games then stay home , we don't need fans at the game that are more concerned with the color of the bathroom walls than the actual game.

The casual fan cares. As JCane and WV and Gonzo have said, the Dolphins do not have the large, local, passionate fanbase that other teams have. It's a diaspora. So what you're left with is a large group of people who might come to the game under a certain set of circumstances. A bad team, playing in a bad stadium in an inconvenient location, is three strikes against their decision making. So they stay home.

Do we "need" the fans at the stadium? Well, that depends on whether you think having fans at the game affects the outcome. I happen to think it does, perhaps you don't. But if you do, then these kinds of variables -- and the Dolphins' total lack of awareness of them -- should be important to you. It's a lot easier to fix the stadium than it is to fix the demographics of Miami, donchathink? The way the situation is now the stadium and it's location help keep people away, which makes the team worse, which means more people stay away... around and around the toilet bowl until you've got the situation as it is now.

A better stadium in a better location would incentivise people to show up even with the team mediocre as it is now, which could be the spark the team needs to get better and get more people coming to the game.

 

[Gonzo]

Most of the fans , or should i say most of the past season ticket holders, reside north of miami, lauderdale, west palm,on up I-95. It's a shorter drive than going deep into miami. It's not pretty but is a better access location for those fans. I'm like you I loved the orange bowl and was brought up as dolphin fan in that stadium. At some point we have to let it go and deal with what we have now. It doesn't look like we are getting a new home anytime soon, so we have to embrace what we have, there's really no other solution other than not going. But as usual , these threads can be summed up in one sentence. Just win baby.

Literally the ONLY solution.

 

[Daytona Fin]

I certainly hope they are not attempting to limit the fans they "want" to those that fit a certain criteria. Getting to and from that stadium is a nightmare compared to many others I've been to. I couldn't imagine going with kids. Just one of the many small things that all add up to a big problem. But, I can see how it's much easier/more convenient to just say the local fanbase sucks. All I know is, if that's the view Ross and Co. are taking as well, good luck addressing it.

No that's my opinion not the dolphins. The stadium is right on the turnpike, not sure which route you take , but it's pretty simple to get too. I prefer 95 though.

 

[Daytona Fin]

The casual fan cares. As JCane and WV and Gonzo have said, the Dolphins do not have the large, local, passionate fanbase that other teams have. It's a diaspora. So what you're left with is a large group of people who might come to the game under a certain set of circumstances. A bad team, playing in a bad stadium in an inconvenient location, is three strikes against their decision making. So they stay home.

Do we "need" the fans at the stadium? Well, that depends on whether you think having fans at the game affects the outcome. I happen to think it does, perhaps you don't. But if you do, then these kinds of variables -- and the Dolphins' total lack of awareness of them -- should be important to you. It's a lot easier to fix the stadium than it is to fix the demographics of Miami, donchathink? The way the situation is now the stadium and it's location help keep people away, which makes the team worse, which means more people stay away... around and around the toilet bowl until you've got the situation as it is now.

A better stadium in a better location would incentivise people to show up even with the team mediocre as it is now, which could be the spark the team needs to get better and get more people coming to the game.

The stadium location and the stadium appearance will have no effect on attendance once philbin and ryan start ripping the nfl apart.

Miami fans get labeled fickle all the time. It's understandable if you don't want to support the fins at the stadium because of their poor play or if you live far away. Going to the game is an enjoyable experience for me and my family and friends.

If you don't attend because of what street the stadium was built on or the appearance of the stadium that is fickle and there is no reason to debate with that type of fan because if the stadium was new and in their back yard that would still make an excuse not to go.