Joe M. Omma
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i also think that fiedler has come up big when his team has needed him and that also might be proven by griese.
Merged: Ethan says "Jay should start" because.../I have an answer!
- Thread starter dolphan39
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I like what I see in Griese...
If the season ends in flames again, I hope they keep Greaseball and go all out revamping the OL with whatever funds we have to work with. That and send this Wade Smith kid to the "David Boston Steroid wharehouse" to pick up some nice supplements!
If the guy puts on some muscle he has shown real talent.... Wade seems to be getting overpowered big time at this point however.
Sydor25
11-5 East Champions
What has Fiedler done when he escapes? Throw an INT? Over throw a wide open TE/WR? Fiedler can't throw when he is stationary, what makes you think that he is going to be better when he is running for his life? What has Fiedler done this year with this o-line that makes you think he is the better option at QB?
FinsGoToGuy
Practice Squad
You're right Griese has shown more than Fiedler has with the same oline.
Griese should be the answer this year but maybe not next year.
But we should give him at least a chance to prove it. Fiedler has had 3-4 years to prove it and he didn't. And don't bring his 33-15 record, it doesn't mean anything. They wouldn't stack the box and dare him to throw if it would.
DPlus47
Out with LaMaga, in with Talita!
fiedler doesn't get sacked as much. sacks are negative plays. your team goes in the wrong direction and sometimes you fumble the ball. incomplete passes are not good, but not so negative. your team still has the ball and has it in the same place it started. so maybe fiedler escapes and the team gets another chance to make a play. i'm not trying to start a QB debate here, but it's entirely possible that in order to win with griese, the offensive line is going to have to make the HUGE LEAP to become mediocre. they can't even see mediocre from where they are now, and maybe an athletic QB is the best way to mask that weakness.
DPlus47
Out with LaMaga, in with Talita!
i have to add that when you play defensive football with field position in mind, limiting negative plays is almost as important as making positive plays.
Sydor25
11-5 East Champions
And INT's are positive plays? Jay has three fumbles in a 2 game period and he has also thrown 2 INT's in three of his six starts. How is that an improvement?
I would say that an INT is worse than a sack. Griese got blindsided twice and fumbled, it happens. Remeber that Griese only fumbled twice last year in 13 games. Fiedler fumbled three times in 11 games. I have shown many times that Fiedler fumbles just as much as Griese. Also, Ricky was a much better runner last year and what did Fiedler do with that running ability? He went 7-4, including losing the last two games when he only needed to win one of them.
I would say that an INT is worse than a sack. Griese got blindsided twice and fumbled, it happens. Remeber that Griese only fumbled twice last year in 13 games. Fiedler fumbled three times in 11 games. I have shown many times that Fiedler fumbles just as much as Griese. Also, Ricky was a much better runner last year and what did Fiedler do with that running ability? He went 7-4, including losing the last two games when he only needed to win one of them.
DPlus47
Out with LaMaga, in with Talita!
i wasn't talking about anything but getting sacked. jay hasn't played well this year. brian has made the throws. he just gets sacked more. that's why i posted about GETTING SACKED. not fumbling, not throwing picks, which all QB's are going to do. at least with griese in, people can look at the stats and see that the o-line isn't cutting it.
is brian going to complete his tenure at QB here without throwing a pick? or is jay the only QB who throws picks?
i want griese to succeed, i really do, but this team can't pass block or run block, and maybe, just maybe they need somebody who can improvise. that's all. i'm not asking anybody to bench him. just stating an opinion that maybe skolnik is onto something.
is brian going to complete his tenure at QB here without throwing a pick? or is jay the only QB who throws picks?
i want griese to succeed, i really do, but this team can't pass block or run block, and maybe, just maybe they need somebody who can improvise. that's all. i'm not asking anybody to bench him. just stating an opinion that maybe skolnik is onto something.
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Am I the only one who doesn't think Griese should have been flagged for intentional grounding?? Especially with McMichael right in front of him?? I thought that was a questionable call.
Anyway, Ethan makes great points here. Both guys have their pros and cons. And they both are very different QBs. Behind this line, Fiedler has a big advantage because of his mobility and athleticism. But Griese has an overall advantage with his arm, accuracy, vision, and ability to quickly read a defense.
So it's kind of like "pick you poison". Do you choose the man who can escape to keep plays alive, but can't make a lot of plays with his arm?? Or do you take the sitting duck who can't escape pressure, but is a superior passer and makes plenty more plays with his arm??
I have to choose Griese simply because he gives us the best chance to open up/execute the offense and take pressure off Ricky. I love Fiedler to death. But even with great blocking, I feel that defenses will still sit on the run. And from a pure passing standpoint, I don't believe Fiedler can make as many plays with protection as Griese can without it.
Anyway, Ethan makes great points here. Both guys have their pros and cons. And they both are very different QBs. Behind this line, Fiedler has a big advantage because of his mobility and athleticism. But Griese has an overall advantage with his arm, accuracy, vision, and ability to quickly read a defense.
So it's kind of like "pick you poison". Do you choose the man who can escape to keep plays alive, but can't make a lot of plays with his arm?? Or do you take the sitting duck who can't escape pressure, but is a superior passer and makes plenty more plays with his arm??
I have to choose Griese simply because he gives us the best chance to open up/execute the offense and take pressure off Ricky. I love Fiedler to death. But even with great blocking, I feel that defenses will still sit on the run. And from a pure passing standpoint, I don't believe Fiedler can make as many plays with protection as Griese can without it.
dolphan39, Just a suggestion, it is always a good idea to CHECK the source you are quoting for accuracy...
>>>From 2000 through 2002, Fiedler was sacked 63 times in 42 starts, Griese was sacked 89 times in 38 starts. This season, it's eight sacks in six games for Fiedler, six in two games for Griese. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...-dolphins-front <<<
How convenient! You want to make YOUR 'favorite' QB look better, regardless of how you have to 'twist' the stats to do it? I am assuming that the sack total for Jay is correct for the YEARS quoted.
Jay has only played in 47 games. Was there some reason the last, five, and the first, one, were omitted? :confused:
To make it a bit more 'fair', let us take 'Career' sacks. Again, I am assuming your rendition of Jay's are correct, but if those attributed to Brian are any indication, maybe someone should look up Jay's.
Here are Brian's:
http://www.playersinc.com/players_network/players_network.asp?ID=26012&strSection=stats
+ 5 that were not accounted for from Sunday. (I try very hard to be both fair AND accurate.)
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20031102_IND@MIA
You go add them up! Kind of puts a different light on the whole argument. Both have been sacked an average of a bit more than once per game. Brian= 1.65 Jay= 1.5
BTW, did Jay ever play a game in a year his team was coming off a SB win? Talk about tough competition. And, he had lost one of the best guys on O-Line in football, the guy that had protected John Elway's blind side for years, plus the starting RB.
>>>From 2000 through 2002, Fiedler was sacked 63 times in 42 starts, Griese was sacked 89 times in 38 starts. This season, it's eight sacks in six games for Fiedler, six in two games for Griese. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...-dolphins-front <<<
How convenient! You want to make YOUR 'favorite' QB look better, regardless of how you have to 'twist' the stats to do it? I am assuming that the sack total for Jay is correct for the YEARS quoted.
Jay has only played in 47 games. Was there some reason the last, five, and the first, one, were omitted? :confused:To make it a bit more 'fair', let us take 'Career' sacks. Again, I am assuming your rendition of Jay's are correct, but if those attributed to Brian are any indication, maybe someone should look up Jay's.
Here are Brian's:
http://www.playersinc.com/players_network/players_network.asp?ID=26012&strSection=stats
+ 5 that were not accounted for from Sunday. (I try very hard to be both fair AND accurate.)
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20031102_IND@MIA
You go add them up! Kind of puts a different light on the whole argument. Both have been sacked an average of a bit more than once per game. Brian= 1.65 Jay= 1.5
BTW, did Jay ever play a game in a year his team was coming off a SB win? Talk about tough competition. And, he had lost one of the best guys on O-Line in football, the guy that had protected John Elway's blind side for years, plus the starting RB.
Joe M. Omma
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iceblizzard69
☠️ Banned ☠️
We tried to sign Wayne Gandy in the offseason but he didn't come. If he did sign with us, we wouldn't have Junior Seau or Sammy Knight on our team. I'll take Seau and Knight.
However, after Gandy, we did neglect the offensive line. Besides Dixon, this line is the same one as last year. I don't think anyone expected Nails to have such a dropoff from last year.
Every offensive linemen has played like **** all year. Last year, we opened up huge holes for Ricky. This year, I haven't seen a whole for him to run into all year.
<------wondering why a n00b would come after 39, a good guy who simply posts these articles and lets everyone else draw their own conclusions first.
<------anxiously awaiting Becky's reply, since she was wrong with her facts.
<------knows that Dolphin fans trust the Sentinel and Ethan Skolnick enough not to worry about checking his facts for him.
BTW - good catch, JM!!
<------anxiously awaiting Becky's reply, since she was wrong with her facts.
<------knows that Dolphin fans trust the Sentinel and Ethan Skolnick enough not to worry about checking his facts for him.
BTW - good catch, JM!!
finfan54
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i would just like to point out that mcmicheal never went as deep as yesterday and getting don lee involved shows that norv is giving griese everything to use. which is what i want, but lets be real, he gave fiedler crap to use. he never got mcnight involved in the O with 3 or 4 WR and all of a sudden, griese gets the goodies.
I think Griese is better throwin the ball, but he cant shake a good pass rush like jay and he cant run a QB draw. I just want to point out that griese is norvs guy and he will do whatever it takes to get griese the goods. now we all know what the real problem is. the oline. which is what i have been defending fiedler with mostly. But i think we have two good QB's who know how to run this offense. we just need to block better for our QB.
Joe M. Omma, My mistake. They gave the stats for 1998 in the '99 space and omitted those for '99, among other things. Seems we can't always depend on what we read at 'any' of these sites.
Yours.
Season Team G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD Int
Career 62 78.6 815 1367 59.6 9528 153.7 7.0 56 52
Jay played in 47 games.and he might be a little upset by some of the other errors from your link, UNLESS, you think it is more accurate that those from nfl.com? I don't know how they managed it but they made him look a 'little' worse than he actually is.
Anyway, thanks for catching my oversight.
Yours.
Season Team G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD Int
Career 62 78.6 815 1367 59.6 9528 153.7 7.0 56 52
Jay played in 47 games.and he might be a little upset by some of the other errors from your link, UNLESS, you think it is more accurate that those from nfl.com? I don't know how they managed it but they made him look a 'little' worse than he actually is.
Anyway, thanks for catching my oversight.