MERGED: Michael Sam to be First Openly Gay Player - Okay w/ Phins drafting him?

[GasPed]

Question for those so outspokenly opposed to homosexuals, are you OK with the abundance of photos of scantily clad women that clog this forum in every thread?

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife.

Heck, that's a commandment! Yet no one seems to care. There certainly aren't protests and boycotts over it...


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Interesting comment. Those of us who take the Bible seriously actually care quite a bit about it (i.e. what that commandment means and its implications for today's society). Probably a topic for another forum.

But I notice you spend a lot of time trying to point out the hypocrisy in Christians rather than dealing with the hypocrisy in your own ethic. You believe homosexual behaviour is fine and I don't. But while I'm ok with that, you're not - and the predictable attacks (i.e. "intolerant", "ignorant", "bigot", "hate-monger", etc.) on people like me by people like you would be almost laughable if they weren't so malicious. The irony beggars belief. But I suppose that's really human nature - as soon as the victim rises to power, they become the victimizer.

 

[matt11390]

I asked in Sunday School once why we as Christians should be so up in arms about gay rights/marriage given that it wasn't even in the top ten and really isn't mentioned that much specifically. They came back with the multiple references to avoiding sexual immorality in the Bible but I then asked, "...doesn't that include fornication and adultery and aren't they fairly prevalent here in this church just like everywhere else? Why is it that we aren't focusing on that rather than judging others?" It didn't go over well. People need to read their Bibles and let it guide them rather than deciding their course and backing it up with scriptures out of context.

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I don't want to turn this into a biblical debate but since you said this I feel I need to respond. The bible teaches all sex outside of marriage is wrong no matter if it's heterosexual or homosexual. The reason it's wrong we can apply practically. Sex outside of God's boundary of marriage can lead to tremendous heart break, divorce, diseases, etc. God's intent was simply to give us a guideline to allow us the best life possible. The problem with how churches voice their opinions about homosexuality is because homosexuality promotes a public "you have to accept me or your wrong" voice forcing churches to respond publicly. Sometimes churches react good and sometimes bad. I guarantee you if there was a movement that promoted fornication as your example then the church would publicly respond to that as well.

I brought up the issue of locker room drama earlier about sexual attraction and that some players will be uncomfortable. This is and will be an issue whether we want to accept it or not. Anytime you have people in a locker room of fit people, whether it be heterosexual men and women or homosexual men and women, there will be issues. You can say "how do I know Sam will be attracted to a player" well I don't and neither will the other players but it will be in their minds. IMO whomever drafts Sam will have to be proactive in building trusting relationships with him just like Missouri players did this past year. Once players get to know Sam for the man he is and not the stereotype of other people IMO the locker room won't be as much of an issue as in the beginning.

 

[finfanaz]

Wow, why hasn't this piece of **** been moved to the depths? No one cares to hear people talk about their tribalistic out dated views on one persons sexual preference. And if some do, go talk about it there. This forum is about football. Looks more like the comment section of a Rush Limbaugh article.

 

[TheWalrus]

Interesting comment. Those of us who take the Bible seriously actually care quite a bit about it (i.e. what that commandment means and its implications for today's society. Probably a topic for another forum.

But I notice you spend a lot of time trying to point out the hypocrisy in Christians rather than dealing with the hypocrisy in your own ethic. You believe homosexual behaviour is fine and I don't. But while I'm ok with that, you're not - and the predictable attacks (i.e. "intolerant", "ignorant", "bigot", "hate-monger", etc.) on people like me by people like you would be almost laughable if they weren't so malicious. The irony beggars belief. But I suppose that's really human nature - as soon as the victim rises to power, they become the victimizer.

When gays start trying to outlaw heterosexual marriage let me know.

 

[SkapePhin]

Interesting comment. Those of us who take the Bible seriously actually care quite a bit about it (i.e. what that commandment means and its implications for today's society. Probably a topic for another forum.

But I notice you spend a lot of time trying to point out the hypocrisy in Christians rather than dealing with the hypocrisy in your own ethic. You believe homosexual behaviour is fine and I don't. But while I'm ok with that, you're not - and the predictable attacks (i.e. "intolerant", "ignorant", "bigot", "hate-monger", etc.) on people like me by people like you would be almost laughable if they weren't so malicious. The irony beggars belief. But I suppose that's really human nature - as soon as the victim rises to power, they become the victimizer.

I value intellectual consistency. The many people I see speak out on this topic rarely are. For example, the "Christian" football players that are decrying this news, but never shine a light on all the adulterers and strip club patrons that inhabit their locker rooms.

I actually respect the people who decry all the sinners equally more, but that is a rare sight indeed. For whatever reason, homosexuality became the sin du jour for most modern Americans.

Funnily enough, I go to Catholic Church almost every Sunday, but the one I attend isn't bogged down with trivial obsessions on sexuality. They adhere to the larger message of Jesus, one of acceptance and care for the downtrodden and needy. Unfortunately, the core message of Jesus has been all but lost and trampled in modern America by the loud and boisterous voices who are obsessed with Old Testament doctrine and Pauline philosophy.


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[Joba-nator]

I've always wondered if those who are homophobic based on religious decisions have had pre-marital sex. I mean technically thats a sin as well.

 

[MarSly]

Don't we want to avoid more drama. If Miami drafts him they might as well bring back Incognito and see how they get along.

 

[jvw]

I value intellectual consistency. The many people I see speak out on this topic rarely are. For example, the "Christian" football players that are decrying this news, but never shine a light on all the adulterers and strip club patrons that inhabit their locker rooms.

I actually respect the people who decry all the sinners equally more, but that is a rare sight indeed. For whatever reason, homosexuality became the sin du jour for most modern Americans.

Funnily enough, I go to Catholic Church almost every Sunday, but the one I attend isn't bogged down with trivial obsessions on sexuality. They adhere to the larger message of Jesus, one of acceptance and care for the downtrodden and needy. Unfortunately, the core message of Jesus has been all but lost and trampled in modern America by the loud and boisterous voices who are obsessed with Old Testament doctrine and Pauline philosophy.


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and Money (Greed)

 

[Buddy]

I don't want to turn this into a biblical debate but since you said this I feel I need to respond. The bible teaches all sex outside of marriage is wrong no matter if it's heterosexual or homosexual. The reason it's wrong we can apply practically. Sex outside of God's boundary of marriage can lead to tremendous heart break, divorce, diseases, etc. God's intent was simply to give us a guideline to allow us the best life possible. The problem with how churches voice their opinions about homosexuality is because homosexuality promotes a public "you have to accept me or your wrong" voice forcing churches to respond publicly. Sometimes churches react good and sometimes bad. I guarantee you if there was a movement that promoted fornication as your example then the church would publicly respond to that as well.

I brought up the issue of locker room drama earlier about sexual attraction and that some players will be uncomfortable. This is and will be an issue whether we want to accept it or not. Anytime you have people in a locker room of fit people, whether it be heterosexual men and women or homosexual men and women, there will be issues. You can say "how do I know Sam will be attracted to a player" well I don't and neither will the other players but it will be in their minds. IMO whomever drafts Sam will have to be proactive in building trusting relationships with him just like Missouri players did this past year. Once players get to know Sam for the man he is and not the stereotype of other people IMO the locker room won't be as much of an issue as in the beginning.

I agree with every single thing you say here except " The problem with how churches voice their opinions about homosexuality is because homosexuality promotes a public "you have to accept me or your wrong" voice forcing churches to respond publicly." The fact is that plenty of churches go out of their way to condemn homosexuality while turning a blind eye to heterosexual immorality. Wrong is wrong, a sin is a sin. No one makes churches condemn anyone any more than they make some gays act flamboyant. With that being said, I do agree that Christian celebrities and leaders are baited into staying their opinion, that gay sex (as well as all sex outside of marriage for that matter) is a sin, and then are berated for it.

Just as you said, some churches handle it better than others just as some homosexuals handle it better than others. Unfortunately, it is the idiots on the fringes that get all the air time leading people to believe that is how a whole demographic feels and behaves.

It was only a couple of decades ago that divorced people or those going through a divorce were practically ostracized at church. Now, nearly every church had a divorce outreach. Churches have begun to reach out to the gay community but really only in the context of helping them "change". That will hopefully transform into them just reaching out to the gay community. There is hope!

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[phishxhead]

Churches have begun to reach out to the gay community but really only in the context of helping them "change". That will hopefully transform into them just reaching out to the gay community.

Since Christianity teaches that sexual immorality (both **** and hetro) lead people away from Christ, why would you hope that the Church stops trying to 'change' them? You don't get to pick and choose what parts you want to follow and which parts you want to ignore.

 

[SkapePhin]

You don't get to pick and choose what parts you want to follow and which parts you want to ignore.

A good many Christians already do that on the regular, especially the ones so outspoken about gay rights, so why would this be any different?

But I think you are missing one key lesson from Jesus: it's not your role to judge others, or to change them. Provide guidance, support and tools? Sure. But not judge and force action against their will.

Ye without sin cast the first stone.


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[jason_taylor]

If he's accepted as a teammate I don't see fans having an issue with it but will he be accepted in most locker rooms?

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IMHO i wouldnt care if he was Gay , ONLY PROBLEM , that i would have is when i would be in the shower , i wouldnt want him standing there looking at me like i was a women , and imaging /masterbating in there minds , that would be the only problem i would have ....

 

[matt11390]

I've always wondered if those who are homophobic based on religious decisions have had pre-marital sex. I mean technically thats a sin as well.

Yes it is. Just as much as homosexuality. In fact God doesn't separate the two when it comes to sexual sin. Pre marital heterosexual sex is spoken about as well as any kind of sexual activity outside his boundary of a man and woman in marriage. This isn't a message of hate from me as a Christian. In fact all people are created in God's image and because of that deserve the respect and love I can give them. But when we speak out against something like this we have to be careful not to communicate hate. In fact because I love a person I want to shed light on any decision or behavior that can be harmful and I want someone to do that with me when I engage in something harmful.

As a parent or even a friend if I love a person I don't just let them continue in a way that can bring harm on them. If I do I don't display my love. It's one thing to say we should accept and love all people but when we act it displays our love. Once again we just can't act in hate. And just because I disagree with someone's lifestyle because I choose to follow the bible doesn't mean I hate a person. I have friends that are gay and they know my heart about their lifestyle and them as people and IMO is speaks volumes they consider me a good friend. Once again the PC police attempts to paint Christians as homophobic or hate mongers just because they disagree with homosexuality. In fact we love people and this is why we speak truth from the bible. We want people to be happy and fulfilled and ultimately whether we commit a sexual sin with the opposite sex or the same sex we will reap some bad consequences.

 

[13mademeafan13]

And when he's cut from a team the media will pick it up that he was cut because he is gay. Dude set himself up to stay on a team for at least his rookie contract, even if his garbage cause no one is going to cut him due to the potential media backlash. That is if he gets signed.

 

[matt11390]

A good many Christians already do that on the regular, especially the ones so outspoken about gay rights, so why would this be any different?

But I think you are missing one key lesson from Jesus: it's not your role to judge others, or to change them. Provide guidance, support and tools? Sure. But not judge and force action against their will.

Ye without sin cast the first stone.


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I agree with most of what you said. But isn't speaking up for God's bible giving guidance? Just because God's bible says something is wrong and we say it's right doesn't mean we aren't getting guidance when someone lovingly confronts us about it. Guidance isn't just happy feelings but mostly correction in course as well.

---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 PM ----------

And when he's cut from a team the media will pick it up that he was cut because he is gay. Dude set himself up to stay on a team for at least his rookie contract, even if his garbage cause no one is going to cut him due to the potential media backlash. That is if he gets signed.

Interesting point. It probably will be brought up.