MERGED: Wannstedt Poll (Fins fans only)

[BlueFin]

Lucas....2-4 as a starter.

Before you even go there, Wanny is no longer in charge of personell.

As I've said before in this thread, and yet I'm being misrepresented again by someone trying to put words in my mouth, I wanted wannstedt gone after last season. But even though that's what I wanted I'm not spoiled or arrogant enough to claim that the season is lost just because the team didn't do what I wanted. Wannstedt could turn out to be a great coach once he is relieved of his GM duties. As a matter of fact, I'm positive that Wannstedt was NOT GM in the year that was voted the BEST COACH IN THE NFL.

All I remember without some research was that he took the Chicago job over the Giants job because he would have control over personnel in Chicago, whether he technically held the title of GM is another matter, but he definately had control the first four years in Chicago, with the Mirer trade being his masterpiece.

Actually it was his last two years when power was removed that his Bears really went into the tank with back to back 4-10's, this is starting to look to much like that situation to me.

 

[inFINSible]

All I remember without some research was that he took the Chicago job over the Giants job because he would have control over personnel in Chicago, whether he technically held the title of GM is another matter, but he definately had control the first four years in Chicago, with the Mirer trade being his masterpiece.

Actually it was his last two years when power was removed that his Bears really went into the tank with back to back 4-10's, this is starting to look to much like that situation to me.

I guarantee that he won't survive one 4-10 season here much less two so, no worries there.

You may be right but, I thought he went in as coach only, and then after winning COY he took over personell control. :huh:

regardless, it proves that when he's not in charge of personell he's a pretty good coach, as he took somebody elses underacheiving team and made the playoffs and then when his talent choices started to infuse the roster it all went downhill, culminating in the two seasons you mentioned.

Still, nothing you've said points to bad coaching.

 

[BlueFin]

I guarantee that he won't survive one 4-10 season here much less two so, no worries there.

You may be right but, I thought he went in as coach only, and then after winning COY he took over personell control. :huh:

regardless, it proves that when he's not in charge of personell he's a pretty good coach, as he took somebody elses underacheiving team and made the playoffs and then when his talent choices started to infuse the roster it all went downhill, culminating in the two seasons you mentioned.

Still, nothing you've said points to bad coaching.

To clarify, according to Bearshistory.com Wannstedt had control of personnel the first five years he coached Chicago, it was stripped from him in year six............

Chicago aside, he took over Jimmy's team here and made the playoffs the first two years, but Jimmy had accomplished the same thing the previous 3 so no major coaching accomplishment there, and he's managed to miss the last two years. No he wouldn't survive 4-12 here, but do we really have to wait till it gets that bad to make a change?

 

[inFINSible]

To clarify, according to Bearshistory.com Wannstedt had control of personnel the first five years he coached Chicago, it was stripped from him in year six............

Chicago aside, he took over Jimmy's team here and made the playoffs the first two years, but Jimmy had accomplished the same thing the previous 3 so no major coaching accomplishment there, and he's managed to miss the last two years. No he wouldn't survive 4-12 here, but do we really have to wait till it gets that bad to make a change?

Obviously the damage he had done as GM was too great to overcome as a coach, in his 6th year. I don't think that's the case here.

As for taking over Jimmies' team, that's somewhat wrong too. He took over Jimmies' defense but, he added important new pieces to the offense which made that aprt of the team his own from the very beginning.....and then he took them to a better record than Jimmy ever did. Two years in a row.

The last two years were equal to any year that Jimmy had, record-wise. As coach, he can't be expected to control what the rest of the league does only what his own team does. If we miss the play-offs with a 10-6 record as the first team to do that in over 10 years, you can hardly pin that on Wannstedt, especially considering the awful o-line and QB play that he coaxed a 10-6 record from.

 

[BlueFin]

Obviously the damage he had done as GM was too great to overcome as a coach, in his 6th year. I don't think that's the case here.

As for taking over Jimmies' team, that's somewhat wrong too. He took over Jimmies' defense but, he added important new pieces to the offense which made that aprt of the team his own from the very beginning.....and then he took them to a better record than Jimmy ever did. Two years in a row.

The last two years were equal to any year that Jimmy had, record-wise. As coach, he can't be expected to control what the rest of the league does only what his own team does. If we miss the play-offs with a 10-6 record as the first team to do that in over 10 years, you can hardly pin that on Wannstedt, especially considering the awful o-line and QB play that he coaxed a 10-6 record from.

Ok, So he's had four years to improve the offense and were still no closer, in fact further from a Championship than we were in Jimmy's last three years, I could care less whether were 6-10 or 10-6 if we miss the playoffs, last year 8 of our 10 wins came against teams with losing records, so that doesn't impress me.

Anyway, we'll see what this season brings, no stopping it now. How will you feel if they fall short of the playoffs again? Will you then be ready for a change? Will you be blaming it on Wannstedt's first four years of bad personnel decisions and giving him yet more rope?

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Ok, So he's had four years to improve the offense and were still no closer, in fact further from a Championship than we were in Jimmy's last three years

I completely disagree with this statement. IMO, the team is in better shape now than in any point in Jimmy's tenure. JJ tried for four years to bring a running game to Miami and failed.

JJ just happened to be fortunate enough that his 9-7 and 10-6 records were enough to make the playoffs, while Wanny's teams did not.

JJ also had a HOF QB to run his offense.

In fact, Wanny's teams have also been better defensively than JJ's teams:

Pts allowed:

1996 - 325
1997 - 327
1998 - 265
1999 - 336

19.6 pts/game

2000 - 226
2001 - 290
2002 - 301
2003 - 261

16.8 pts/game

 

[inFINSible]

Ok, So he's had four years to improve the offense and were still no closer, in fact further from a Championship than we were in Jimmy's last three years, I could care less whether were 6-10 or 10-6 if we miss the playoffs, last year 8 of our 10 wins came against teams with losing records, so that doesn't impress me.

Anyway, we'll see what this season brings, no stopping it now. How will you feel if they fall short of the playoffs again? Will you then be ready for a change? Will you be blaming it on Wannstedt's first four years of bad personnel decisions and giving him yet more rope?

I don't think we're further from a championship than Jimmies' three years, I think we're a much better team than any of those three years.

:shakeno: And yet again, I was ready for a change this year, so how do you twist that into, me not being ready for a change next year if the results are the same??

 

[BlueFin]

I don't think we're further from a championship than Jimmies' three years, I think we're a much better team than any of those three years.

:shakeno: And yet again, I was ready for a change this year, so how do you twist that into, me not being ready for a change next year if the results are the same??

Ok, fair enough, I'm new to this board and I didn't really know where you stood at the end of last season.

As far as where we are now compared to Jimmy's last year, our receivers are better, and our running back is obviously better, Ii think our O-line is far from being what you would call a strength, its young, hasn't played together and could be a major weakness along with still a major question mark at quarterback. We have some age at certain defensive positions that is beginning to show (Bowens, Zach, Madison, Seau).

 

[sbh1602]

As far as where we are now compared to Jimmy's last year, our receivers are better, and our running back is obviously better, Ii think our O-line is far from being what you would call a strength, its young, hasn't played together and could be a major weakness along with still a major question mark at quarterback. We have some age at certain defensive positions that is beginning to show (Bowens, Zach, Madison, Seau).

Yeah... and I'll even add that our running back took a major pounding last season and COULD be worn out for this one... and also that our WRs COULD be better, but also worse (depending on Boston and the "new" guys panning out or not)...

It all depend on how you want to look at it. I'm going into this season with... let's say "restrained optimism". I'm not jumping up and down screaming SB just yet... but I'm confident we will compete... and I hope we can make a buzz come January...

It's all attitude