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Metrics are for....

Then again, there are people who know football, and people that think it's worth investing in
a veteran running back that's underachieved his whole career, until he came into his contract year
and pay that back big money in the FA market.
 
A Mike Mayock sentence goes something like this: Tape, tape, tape, kid, kid, tape, kid, tape, tape kid, tape, tape.

And that's all you need to know.

Mayock has been a boon to the type who somehow think it's a revelation to look at tape. As in, look at me, I'm watching the same thing as everyone else.

Perhaps we should throw a parade.

Fixation on tape is laughably simplistic. The high error rate in scouting is largely due to obsession with tape while ignoring the peripheral variables and how to weigh them. But I concede it won't change. Guys in this era are brainwashed to rely on tape, just like college football fans are now paralyzed to evaluate a team minus strength of schedule.

Two horses can be dead even at the top of the stretch. But how they got there and their likelihood to win the race, or subsequent races, can be vastly different. If you know the pedigree and the surrounding details, you understand that. It's not a surprise when there's a 7 length gap at the wire. But the goof with the binoculars and no background in the sport is cheering for the red saddlecloth and little else. If he sees Ryan Tannehill and Johnny Manziel looking roughly the same in a Texas A&M uniform late in their careers, he concludes they are parallel and their pro potential is roughly the same, if not advantage Tannehill. Heck, draft each one of them in the 8 spot. Disregard that one guy has been a special playmaker all his life while the other has been a perennial tease.

Tape lies all the time when conventional wisdom is the principal ammo of the beholder.

Bar stool types are shocked to be challenged. That's verified daily here. They are accustomed to screaming this guy sucks and that guy sucks and awaiting peer approval. That's how a modern day Steve Deberg-like Alex Smith and his lifetime pathetic 6.6 yards per attempt, just good enough to get you beat, is actually preferred above Colin Kaepernick and his 7.9 lifetime number and adjusted 8.1. It's rare for the second number to be superior to the first but the happy adjusters are wonderfully oblivious. Something in their system screamed suck so they stick with stuck. They don't even understand the criteria that places the second number above the first but none of that matters as long as the guy in the adjoining stool is equally bewildered.


futurescout is talented but he makes basic mistakes. Like yesterday when he announced that Cameron Wake has many top years left since he was inactive in his early 20s. That's happy adjuster caliber. Walrus properly scolded. Now the onslaught on numbers. I remember when I was new to Las Vegas and bet strictly on line of scrimmage mismatches. I scoffed at the eccentric nerds who were babbling about situational bias, and some vague concept of value. I threw away my stubbornness, studied what I'd previously dismissed, and prospered. Let it happen to you.

In the meantime, make sure you never speculate. :lol:
This (bolded above) is precisely the issue.
 
Anyone to narrow minded to look at all the tools they have at their disposal to make their team better...probably needs to stick to making rants on a message board.

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Anyone too narrow minded to look at all the tools they have at their disposal to make their team better...probably needs to stick to making rants on a message board.
And when someone is no one but a fan on a message board (myself included), he ought to recognize his potential for bias with regard to what he believes he's seeing on his television screen, and use objective data to confirm or disconfirm the conclusions he makes via that medium.
 
The looney tunes have arrived. Finally, we can get this thread rolling.

:snack:
 
Colin Kaepernick is amazing. Did you see his YPA?

To bad he can't read a defense very effectively or has very good accuracy, nah **** that YPA baby.
 
Colin Kaepernick is amazing. Did you see his YPA?

To bad he can't read a defense very effectively or has very good accuracy, nah **** that YPA baby.

Really? The guy that just broke the franchise record for road playoff wins, on a team that had hall of famers Steve Young and Joe Montana no less. The guy that could very easily go to back to back Super Bowls in his first two seasons as a starter. The guy thats 23-7 as a starter and 4-1 in the playoffs. Really? You're really going to take a stand against the YPA stat using that guy, Colin ****ing Kaepernick, as proof the stat is meaningless?
 
Really? The guy that just broke the franchise record for road playoff wins, on a team that had hall of famers Steve Young and Joe Montana no less. The guy that could very easily go to back to back Super Bowls in his first two seasons as a starter. The guy thats 23-7 as a starter and 4-1 in the playoffs. Really? You're really going to take a stand against the YPA stat using that guy, Colin ****ing Kaepernick, as proof the stat is meaningless?

Yeah because he's still not a good pocket qb, has trouble reading a defense, has accuracy issues.

Winning playoff games on the road doesn't mean your an all pro, Mark Sanchez has 4 too, he can't do anything good.
 
Really? The guy that just broke the franchise record for road playoff wins, on a team that had hall of famers Steve Young and Joe Montana no less. The guy that could very easily go to back to back Super Bowls in his first two seasons as a starter. The guy thats 23-7 as a starter and 4-1 in the playoffs. Really? You're really going to take a stand against the YPA stat using that guy, Colin ****ing Kaepernick, as proof the stat is meaningless?

I don't think anyone is arguing that it's worthless number that has no meaning. Colin Kaepernick is just a great example of a player who has a really high YPA yet isn't a particularly good quarterback.

Take Young and Montana for instance. Kaepernick's got a higher career YPA than Joe Montana, I believe. You'd really take Kaepernick over Montana? :lol: Likewise, Steve Young had an adjusted yards per attempt of just 5.0 in Tampa. That's awful. Was Steve Young a terrible quarterback? How then does he pull off an incredible 7.9 adjusted yards per attempt in his 13 years in San Francisco? Do you think that coaching and supporting cast matter? Because I do. I think they matter a lot.

All I can say is that if you truly believe that one statistic means everything, and tells you everything you need to know about an individual player, then you must also entertain the possibility that David Carr is a significantly better quarterback than Andrew Luck. But I know you don't.
 
I don't think anyone is arguing that it's worthless number that has no meaning. Colin Kaepernick is just a great example of a player who has a really high YPA yet isn't a particularly good quarterback.

Take Young and Montana for instance. Kaepernick's got a higher career YPA than Joe Montana, I believe. You'd really take Kaepernick over Montana? :lol: Likewise, Steve Young had an adjusted yards per attempt of just 5.0 in Tampa. That's awful. Was Steve Young a terrible quarterback? How then does he pull off an incredible 7.9 adjusted yards per attempt in his 13 years in San Francisco? Do you think that coaching and supporting cast matter? Because I do. I think they matter a lot.

All I can say is that if you truly believe that one statistic means everything, and tells you everything you need to know about an individual player, then you must also entertain the possibility that David Carr is a significantly better quarterback than Andrew Luck. But I know you don't.

Nailed it! Very good summary......
 
Colin Kaepernick is amazing. Did you see his YPA?

To bad he can't read a defense very effectively or has very good accuracy, nah **** that YPA baby.
Ironically, "metrics" would tell you exactly how much weight to give those variables in terms of winning, and in developing a complete picture of a QB based on all of the objective data available.
 
Also one other thing I'd point out. YPA is a measure of the offense's efficiency at producing yards when the ball is thrown. It's a very, very good efficiency measurement.

But using it to say that one quarterback is better than another is just comical. I went over this in the Gary Kubiak thread, but Steve Young isn't an outlier. I can point to many other examples of players who were dreadful on one team (or under one coach) and Pro Bowl caliber players with another.

I've mentioned Plummer before, so here's another one: Rich Gannon. In 1998, he played for the Kansas City Chiefs and threw for a very pedestrian 6.5 yards per attempt. In 1999 he played for the Oakland Raiders and threw for a very good 7.5 yards per attempt, and went to the Pro Bowl. Did he suddenly become a much better player in one offseason?


One last thing: Coaching matters a lot. It matters a LOT.

Unless Bill O'Brien is a significantly better than average coach, the Texans are in for a rude awakening this year. I don't think Houston fans understand just how much Gary Kubiak's top tier offensive coaching masked that team's deficiencies on offense. Arian Foster is nobody special and neither is Matt Schaub. That's a team with one old, banged up Andre Johnson and a whole lot of nothing else.
 
Ironically, "metrics" would tell you exactly how much weight to give those variables in terms of winning, and in developing a complete picture of a QB based on all of the objective data available.

Yeah watching him on tv gives me the same ****.

He's carried by his great team, I can throw a quick out to Davis and have a high YPA as well, doesn't mean I'm a good qb.
 
Yeah watching him on tv gives me the same ****.
If the objective data tell us the same thing we're seeing on TV, that's sure great, but when we're highly emotionally invested in seeing one thing and not another, which happens a great deal more when watching players for our own team (as opposed to Kaepernick, for example), then in my opinion we should sure allow the objective data to disconfirm our subjective perceptions with regularity and without issue.
 
Also one other thing I'd point out. YPA is a measure of the offense's efficiency at producing yards when the ball is thrown.

Using it to say that one quarterback is better than another is just comical. I went over this in the Gary Kubiak thread, but Steve Young isn't an outlier. I can point to many other examples of players who were dreadful on one team (or under one coach) and Pro Bowl caliber players with another.

I've mentioned Plummer before, so here's another one: Rich Gannon. In 1998, he played for the Kansas City Chiefs and threw for a very pedestrian 6.5 yards per attempt. In 1999 he played for the Oakland Raiders and threw for a very good 7.5 yards per attempt, and went to the Pro Bowl. Did he suddenly become a much better player in one offseason?

That's my biggest problem, it's no 1 person who makes YPA what it is.

Our leading WR, Hartline, couldn't get YAC if he was wide open, due to his inability to stay on his feet consistently.

I'm calling it now, if Lazor calls more explosive plays, and more creative plays to get our guys open all over the field Ryan Tannehill's YPA will be where it needs to be, I guarantee Lazor won't call that stupid out route to Wallace ALL the time, the use if drag routes and deep post will only improve his number.
 
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