Mia4ever My $0.02 about the SR. BOWL & Frist Fin's Mock Draft

[nopony]

please, Chalie makes a lot of bad decision
don't just look at the SR BOWL .

If you don't want it to be "just about the sr. bowl, perhaps you shouldn't title your thread... senior bowl.

____

I like a lot of your player evaluation. A couple quibbles about Whitehurst...

Charlie Whitehurst
Good Has excellent size ,good arm strength,love to throw short and middle pass.Great Sr bowl game
BAD bad bad decision maker miss a lot of easy throw ,only a 4th are 5th round draft choice any thing higher is reaching

First, as I said, this is not senior bowl analysis of Whitehurst. You judged others on that basis, then detoured here.

Second, I don;t know where the "miss a lot of easy throws" comes from exactly. He had a 67+% completion percentage last year and threw a whole one more pick than Cutler while being a LOT more accurate and a higher YPA.

My other issue is a very common one... cutting Cutler a little too much slack.

Jay Cutler A four year starter on a dreadful SEC team, Jay Cutler was the one shining star. He was the 2005 SEC Offensive Player of the Year
now Cutler was not and was impress all at the same Time
Good Arm strength,touch is above avg. and movement in the Pocket very well
Bad not accuracy on all routes,love to throw off the back foot,think he can fit the ball into small areas. All can be Correct (Accuracy is probably the hardest but the kid 61% Comp. rate in 2004)Cutler is still being over hype
but I love the kid Arm strength. TOP 25 player in the Draft but not top 10
that would be just a reach /before Sat i said the Kid was a 2nd Round pick

While I agree with your conclusions, a couple things...

1- There was little to nothing impressive about his actual senior bowl game. Looked at by itself he was horrible.

2- The stuff you mention is NOT easy to correct and Cutler is not very accurate. Far lower than Young or leinart or even WHitehurst.

Not saying Cutler stinks, but he did at the senior bowl.

 

[Pennington's Rocket Arm]

cutler is not accurate because of his mechanics and footwork. when everything works for him, he's VERY accurate. that stuff is very correctable.

 

[nopony]

cutler is not accurate because of his mechanics and footwork. when everything works for him, he's VERY accurate. that stuff is very correctable.

How can you say that with certainty? Accuracy is one of the HARDEST things to correct.

And when "everything works for them" everybody is accurate. Gus Ferotte is Johnny Unitas when "everything works for him".

 

[cowtowndick]

____________________Mock Draft ________________________ :dolphins:


Rounds No Trades

1.DB Jimmy Williams VT
2.DB Devin Hester miami
3.DE/ILB Dumervil, Elvis louisville
4.OG Davin Joseph, OG, Oklahoma
7.Jeff King, TE, Virginia Tech
7.Quadtrine Hill, FB, Miami (FL)
7.Gerald Anderson, DT, Georgia

Comments : Williams give you a muti-talented DB .Jimmy can play S or Cb well.
mean streak ,with all the Jay Cutler talk Williams could become a pro bowl Db.Hester I know I going to get blasted for this one it probably not a Saban pick it's a good one.Saban love to teach ,here his chance. yes a awesome return man.Eric is a short DE I see him and Trapp falling a little, to top of the 3rd Round.Davin Joseph is a smart and strong kid 6"5 305 need to gain about 30 more pounds.


____________________Mock DRAFT______________________ :dolphins:


Rounds (w/Trades)

Well Denver think their maybe a player are T.O away for winning a super Bowl.
trade their 22 and 29 in the frist round and 5th round pick.Denver will still receive 2 picks in the top 50.Miami trades their 16 and 48 pick in the Draft 1st and 2nd round .maybe a player (exp.Gilmore.)

Rounds
1.Cromartie, Antonio, CB Florida St
1.Jean-Gilles, Max, OG Georgia
3.Greg Blue, S, Georgia
4.Reggie McNeal, QB, Texas A&M
5.Cameron Vaughn, OLB, LSU
7.Jeff Webb, WR, San Diego St.
7.Javon Nanton, DE, Miami (FL)
7.Kwakou Robinson, DT, Virginia

ok guys let me have it

sorry man - hate your mocks. hester in the second? two db's in 1 and 2? dumervil and joseph are gone before you have them listed. no qb? the one with trades - i don't know, impossible to speculate on trades.

 

[cowtowndick]

How can you say that with certainty? Accuracy is one of the HARDEST things to correct.

And when "everything works for them" everybody is accurate. Gus Ferotte is Johnny Unitas when "everything works for him".

clearly you are not in the 'draft jay cutler' camp. cool - we can't all agree. so i'm curious as to your solution or suggestion is at qb.

 

[nopony]

clearly you are not in the 'draft jay cutler' camp. cool - we can't all agree. so i'm curious as to your solution or suggestion is at qb.

I know I come across that way, but I'm actually not anti-draft jay cutler... I'm anti-jay cutler out of control hype. That's all.

I actually think he's a promising project. And if Saban and Mueller think he's promising enough to draft him at 16, I'll be really good with that. (as long as we bring in a better vet to start while he develops)

I look at Cutler like I do Whitehurst. Intriguing possibilities for the future. I think the main difference between me and many is that I don't put Cutler in the same league as Young and Leinart. But I definitely put him at the top of the rest of the pack.

I'm just having a reaction to the huge, out of nowhere hype that has spun out of control around Cutler. He makes me nervous when people are talking about giving up two first round picks for him.

My attitude towards this could best be described as "Whoaaaa... easy now. He's a good prospect, let's not buy his pro-bowl ticket just yet."

 

[cowtowndick]

I know I come across that way, but I'm actually not anti-draft jay cutler... I'm anti-jay cutler out of control hype. That's all.

I actually think he's a promising project. And if Saban and Mueller think he's promising enough to draft him at 16, I'll be really good with that. (as long as we bring in a better vet to start while he develops)

I look at Cutler like I do Whitehurst. Intriguing possibilities for the future. I think the main difference between me and many is that I don't put Cutler in the same league as Young and Leinart. But I definitely put him at the top of the rest of the pack.

I'm just having a reaction to the huge, out of nowhere hype that has spun out of control around Cutler. He makes me nervous when people are talking about giving up two first round picks for him.

My attitude towards this could best be described as "Whoaaaa... easy now. He's a good prospect, let's not buy his pro-bowl ticket just yet."

very fair - i agree although i see cutler as closer to young and leinhart than you do, from the sounds of things. and i see croyle and whitehurst as definitely a cut below cutler. where do you see jacobs in all of this?

 

[nopony]

very fair - i agree although i see cutler as closer to young and leinhart than you do, from the sounds of things. and i see croyle and whitehurst as definitely a cut below cutler. where do you see jacobs in all of this?

Sounds like it's just a matter of degree with us. You could very well be right on Cutler, with me it's much more question marks than negatives.

As to Jacobs, honestly I hardly watched him at all. I'm trying to get more some agent's tape on all of them from a friend, but Jacobs particularly I don't know at all. Do you like him?

With Croyle and Whitehurst the best way to put it is that I would rather spend a third on one of them than a high first on Cutler.

 

[cowtowndick]

Sounds like it's just a matter of degree with us. You could very well be right on Cutler, with me it's much more question marks than negatives.

As to Jacobs, honestly I hardly watched him at all. I'm trying to get more some agent's tape on all of them from a friend, but Jacobs particularly I don't know at all. Do you like him?

With Croyle and Whitehurst the best way to put it is that I would rather spend a third on one of them than a high first on Cutler.

i'd like to like jacobs, he has some pretty staggering numbers, has what looks to be the sorta size you like in a qb but like you i haven't seen him enough to really say. on croyle v. whitehurst v. cutler, for some reason i see more upside to cutler than the other two, i think they have a ceiling much lower in terms of potential than cutler. i gotta say i love the fact that he gutted it out playing for vandy, had some impressive games (even in losses) when he was basically the only game in town. i think if surrounded by talent and given the right coaching, he could blossom into something huge, moreso than the other two. why do i think that? not sure. i guess the biggest thing influencing this might be stuff like the interviews and such.

i will say this - i definitely think leinhart is overrated, and will reveal himself to be once he's drafted. i can't think of a college qb that has been surrounded by more talent since i've been watching college football. that usc offense had five first round guys on it, maybe a couple more if others had declared early - that had to have made his life a lot easier. and young, while i think he's got huge game, has question marks as well. but those two are definitely top five guys this year, and cutler more accurately should be sixteen to twenty two, imo.

 

[23Dolphins34]

I'll give my 2 cents worth. I think Saban is using this "upgrading the QB position" as a smoke screen. Much like last year. Why trade for A.J. Feeley and a 6th round pick for Cleo Lemon? If you release Lemon your basically throwing a 6th rounder away. Why do that. If Nick and Randy upgrade the QB spot, I think it'll be through FA. It has been proven that a QB who can manage the offense and minimize turnovers can lead you to the Super Bowl. The common denominator in teams reaching the Super Bowl, being able to run the football and being able to stop people from running the football. Saban is starting to solve the first issue with running the ball by drafting Ronnie last year. To help further it along he needs a stout offensive line. I don't believe he'll draft a LT in the first. Keeping McIntosh and having Alibi back up him and Carey. I can't see Saban drafting another young T to go along with Alibi. That leaves the G position as a possible selection. Someone along the lines of a Max Jean-Gilles, Duece Lutusi, Charles Spencer or Davin Joseph. One of those 4 will probably be a Dolphin.

If he decides to draft defensively in the first, LB and DB would be a fit. Greenway will more than likely be gone by the 16th pick. Maybe a DeMeco Ryans, Bobby Carpenter or A.J. Nicholson (but probably not in the 1st round with the last 2 guys). If he goes CB, Antonio Cromartie (1st round), DeMario Minter or Kelly Jennings or even Cedric Griffin as 2nd rounders. At S, Darnell Bing might be the guy Saban takes or possibly Daniel Bullocks, Jason Allen, Pat Watkins as 2nd rounders or a guy I liked at the Senior Bowl was Jahmile Addae as a 3rd rounder.

I could be wrong, but I don't see Saban or Mueller drafting a QB this year. Maybe waiting for next year. I don't know, just a hunch I have. Anyways, it should be fun trying to guess what Nick Saban is gonna do in this draft.

 

[cowtowndick]

Why trade for A.J. Feeley and a 6th round pick for Cleo Lemon? If you release Lemon your basically throwing a 6th rounder away. Why do that. If Nick and Randy upgrade the QB spot, I think it'll be through FA. It has been proven that a QB who can manage the offense and minimize turnovers can lead you to the Super Bowl...

I could be wrong, but I don't see Saban or Mueller drafting a QB this year. Maybe waiting for next year. I don't know, just a hunch I have. Anyways, it should be fun trying to guess what Nick Saban is gonna do in this draft.

Like everyone on this site, i trust that whomever saban/mueller decide will be the qb next year, it will all work out, but honestly what's out there in free agency? Re a qb that can manage a game etc, I think the game has changed, and will continue to change, making that kind of qb much less effective than in the past. Carolina was in the NFC championship with a brutal running game, and we've seen in the past in Miami that a mediocre commitment to developing a qb gets only gets you so far. Over the course of a few years, the vaunted defense you've built, and the great running back you may have, miss their window of opportunity because that caretaker-style of qb can't get you over the hump. In fact, it seems less important to have that stud rb, as more teams seem to favour the rb-by-committee approach. Re the Feeley/Lemon trade, I think you give San Diego the sixth round pick to seal the trade and take Feeley off of your hands. It's a sixth round pick - if Lemon was the kind of talent your suggesting he is, San Diego wouldn't have moved him. Not to say that I know he isn't worth a shot, but what reason is there to suggest he's starting material? Not that I'll be the guy second guessing Saban/Mueller, but I'd be very skeptical if we head into training camp next year with Frerotte, Rosenfels and Lemon as our qb candidates. Even if you add a FA (none out there are really exciting options), you have to add a viable option through the draft.

 

[23Dolphins34]

Cowtown, it seems we have a different opinion on the QB situation and that's cool. But no comments on what I feel could be draft options? I know in your post your set on drafting a QB, but IMO, I feel there are other needs to address. Maybe Saban can address those needs in FA and draft that QB in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round. I just feel drafting a QB in the 1st round will be a waste of a pick. I don't see a franchise QB in this draft and if draft Cutler, your drafting a young Gus, thats my opinion. I just see Miami going after an OG or LB, DB in the 1st. What do you think?

 

[cowtowndick]

Cowtown, it seems we have a different opinion on the QB situation and that's cool. But no comments on what I feel could be draft options? I know in your post your set on drafting a QB, but IMO, I feel there are other needs to address. Maybe Saban can address those needs in FA and draft that QB in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round. I just feel drafting a QB in the 1st round will be a waste of a pick. I don't see a franchise QB in this draft and if draft Cutler, your drafting a young Gus, thats my opinion. I just see Miami going after an OG or LB, DB in the 1st. What do you think?

If there were better options in the second or third rounds, I'd be the first to say wait. But imo, there is a dropoff in talent/potential after Young and Leinhart, then a huge dropoff after Cutler. Funny you mention a young Gus - that's exactly what I see in Croyle and Whitehurst. I'd even be happier trading the #2 for Schaub and using the first for another position. Relying on Croyle or Whitehurst is a mistake - nothing about those guys excites me in the least, and I've tried to get excited about them (ok, that sounded creepy). Anyway - imo, it's critically important for the Dolphins to get the qb of the future now, in this offseason - it's priority one. Whether they draft for him, trade for him or sign a FA. Of those options, the draft seems the most encouraging. Which FA can you see being the guy to come in and be the qb for the next 5 years? He ain't there. Re the trade - what can we give up without giving up too much? A second round for Schaub, a third for Ramsey - those deals seem OK to me. I've read a lot about trading RW to Denver for their second first round pick (#29?), then using the two firsts to move up for Cutler. I'm a Cutler guy, and I have reservations about that one as well, that might work for me. I have great faith in Saban/Mueller, so whatever they do will work for me, but if we don't have the future franchise qb in camp this year, it's a setback (imo). We can live with Gus for one more year if we have the next guy on the sidelines, getting ready to take over in '07.

With regard to the other positions, there seems to be very good depth at the other positions we need upgrade in. Good secondary depth, good options at LB, good OLine options. The draft could go a few ways for me. A) Either Cutler drops to #16 and we pick him up, or we trade up to get him. We have our candidate for qb in the first. Then, we will still have very good options to upgrade a key position in the second, where there will be options like D'Qwell Jackson (ILB), Manny Lawson (OLB-DE), Gabe Watson (DT), Taitusi Lutui (OG), Pat Watkins (S), Ryan O'Callaghan (OT). Then, in the third, options will include Andrew Whitworth (OT), Kelly Jennings (CB), Greg Blue (S). B) Cutler is gone, so we wait on getting our qb. At #16, there's fantastic options, such as Michael Huff (S - probably gone), Jimmy Williams (CB), Marcus McNeil (OT), Thomas Howard (OLB), Ernie Sims (OLB), Chad Greenway (OLB). In the second, some will be screaming for Brodie Croyle (QB) - I still need to be convinced, but he's an option, I guess. Also, trading this pick for Schaub is a great option. Other than that, the previously mentioned guys will be there. In the third, I guess you have to look at Whitehurst maybe being there, along with the other guys.

However you slice it, by hook or by crook, we have to come out of this offseason with our franchise qb. The window of opportunity is closing - very soon, Thomas, Taylor and some others on defense will be falling off, done their time with us. If we can get that qb this year, then '07 and '08 could be 'super' years.

 

[Pennington's Rocket Arm]

How can you say that with certainty? Accuracy is one of the HARDEST things to correct.

And when "everything works for them" everybody is accurate. Gus Ferotte is Johnny Unitas when "everything works for him".

his accuracy isn't a problem, his overall mechanics are. when "everything works for them" i'm referring to when his feet are set and he throws the ball properly. he's very accurate there.