Miami's identity & Seattle's formula | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Miami's identity & Seattle's formula

You guys crack me up. A few years ago we hated Parcells for his ancient offense. Now half of you wish we could have it back. The good GM's see the trends and then take advantage of them, not by following the trend but by getting value where other people are passing on it so they can follow the trend. Seattle got Marshawn Lynch for practically nothing. The market was chasing WR's and QB's offensively, and Seattle got themselves a stud. Same with Oline, the market is chasing pass blockers for their passing attacks and guys that can dominate with run blocking with average pass blocking skills are a bargain. This is how you build a team. This trend has been going on for a while. With the exposure seattle, 49ers, baltimore (last year), have given power running and defense, you can expect teams to build in that direction again. Not saying we should, but it should allow some value at other positions that wasn't there before.
Nobody is saying they want Parcells back. What people are saying is that regime was trying at least to build toughness in the roster. Not a bunch of finesse guys. Nearly every team making the Super Bowl and winning it for the past ten yrs has been tough and physical up and down the lineup.
 
Team went completely off the rails when we brought CP10 in and Brady went down handing us the Division - And the team and fanbase thought we had arrived. We should have stayed away from CP10 and TAKEN OUR LUMPS LIKE ANY REBUILD - drafted early the next few years. And perhaps we might have been built to withstand the O and D line dominance of the AFCE. Knowing the draft record today of BBP and Sons you can hardly put any credence into that, but that PO game was a mirage and we got hammered against the Ravens was all I needed to see, how far away we really were.

This post is so far off base it's laughable.

If Pennington could have stayed healthy, this team would have made playoffs more than one year. Take lumps and draft high? Comedy man. We drafted high in 2008 and drafted Long and Henne. Meanwhile Seattle is picking up Richard Sherman in the 5th effing round. Tell me the last time Miami picked up an impact player in the 5th round. Yep, Zach Thomas almost 20 years ago.

Good teams manage the draft and get good players. Go look up the round that the Patriots drafted Edelman. You don't need to sandbag with multiple years of futility. Most futile teams stay futile. Why? Because they suck as an organization.
 
We had 3 of the worst rushing performances in franchise history and we gave up a franchise record number of sacks in the same year.

You can have whatever identity you want. If you can't block anybody, you're not going to win games. I don't even know how we won 8, to be honest with you.
Good points. Look at the AFC Championship. NE didn't once get Manning to the ground. Granted, Manning's pre-snap reads are amazing but still. Can you imagine if Tannehill had that extra second or two?

I do agree with the OP, though, that we need that strong running back who will get those tough yards consistently. We are missing that physical element on offense.
 
Lol. When analyzing the identity of the Dolphins under Joe Philbin it will be the opposite of the Seahwaks. Joe wants a finesse team. He wants to be quick and agile upfront.

It makes no sense talking about getting "punch you in the mouth" type players under Philbin. I am the exact opposite in my belief system of how to win games. Give me the blue collar approach of the Seahawks, Niners and 2012 Ravens. However, when discussing who the Fins should get this offseason it has to be done through the lense of what Joe wants in a player.
That is the problem. The team needs more physicality, especially on offense, but is that going to happen? Maybe in 2015 if Philibin is not around.
 
The Sparano system was garbage. Whats your point? Did you want to keep it? Given the choice of more Sparano or the promise of Philbin, its hard to fault the fans. How was anyone 2 guess that Philbin would make the O worse.

The promise of Philbin? Really? Similar to the promise of Chip Kelly, right? They both have brought so much in the way off offensive creativity, I definitely see your point.


Yes Sparano had to go. But so does milk toast Philbin. Just another wrong hire.

2 years in and no identity. What is our identity? Do we have one? Please tell me our identity in 7 words or less.
 
Deion IMO is an idiot of epic proportions. But once or twice a season, he says something worthwhile.

Eisen, Faulk, & Deion were talking during the post game analysis about a Seattle game NFL Network did in Dec 2011. They asked Pete about the identity of his team, which had not been established yet.

Long story short, DS said there were 3 pieces to Seattle's identity. The Legion of Boom, a dog (though Beast would be more appropriate) of an RB, & an intelligent QB. Sherman & Thomas are crucial cogs in Seattle's D but the most important pieces are Wagner & Chancellor.

The phins are part of the way there. Drafting Morris (MLB Iowa) then Blue or Hill (RB LSU) would help considerably.

Thoughts/insight?

It's more than that. Not to go negative, but I've thought about Miami in relation to Seattle. In Seattle, players are encouraged to be themselves. I like that. I believe in situational leadership, where the coach coaches individuals rather than one coaching style for all. In Miami, Philbin likes guys to keep their mouths shut and he ships out guys he thinks he can't handle or are individualistic. It's not the ideal culture for me. Yes it is a team, but it is made of up 53 individual people. Never liked Pete Carrol but in Seattle he has been great.
 
This post is so far off base it's laughable.

If Pennington could have stayed healthy, this team would have made playoffs more than one year. Take lumps and draft high? Comedy man. We drafted high in 2008 and drafted Long and Henne. Meanwhile Seattle is picking up Richard Sherman in the 5th effing round. Tell me the last time Miami picked up an impact player in the 5th round. Yep, Zach Thomas almost 20 years ago.

Good teams manage the draft and get good players. Go look up the round that the Patriots drafted Edelman. You don't need to sandbag with multiple years of futility. Most futile teams stay futile. Why? Because they suck as an organization.

POs with CP10 with a healthy Pats team is also laughable -only reason we made POs was because Brady went down - ONLY REASON - Not Noodle arm

Did you forget the Gimmick offense - that was a staple - beacuse Noodles couldn't get it done
 
No Philbin wants the players he chooses, not the players someone else chose.

Some of you act like this thought process is a rare thing in sports let alone the world we all live in.

Learning how to give leadership to each individual is rare, because it takes way more work. Making each player believe he is an important part of the team is challenging, but it is amazing once you get it off the ground.
 
I simply cannot believe the Noodle naievity on this site - Chad would take us to the POs if he could have stayed healthy - That is a good one! As if staying healthy weren't part of the game - LOL

Well we haave made the POs had RW and RB each run for 1,000 yards too - har! har!
 
POs with CP10 with a healthy Pats team is also laughable -only reason we made POs was because Brady went down - ONLY REASON - Not Noodle arm

Did you forget the Gimmick offense - that was a staple - beacuse Noodles couldn't get it done

Agree. It bother's me to even read about Chad Pennington. Why a few Miami fans want to gloat about the XJet is beyond me.
 
The promise of Philbin? Really? Similar to the promise of Chip Kelly, right? They both have brought so much in the way off offensive creativity, I definitely see your point.


Yes Sparano had to go. But so does milk toast Philbin. Just another wrong hire.

2 years in and no identity. What is our identity? Do we have one? Please tell me our identity in 7 words or less.

7 words = The Island of mismatched Dolphin football players. Power OL in a zone scheme. 16m deep threat WR with a terrible deep throwing QB. 3-4 defenders playing the 4-3. Athletic QB chained to the pocket.

I heart Kelly. Philbin seems like a fraud.

---------- Post added at 10:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 PM ----------

POs with CP10 with a healthy Pats team is also laughable -only reason we made POs was because Brady went down - ONLY REASON - Not Noodle arm

Did you forget the Gimmick offense - that was a staple - beacuse Noodles couldn't get it done

All combined with a super easy schedule.
 
7 words = The Island of mismatched Dolphin football players. Power OL in a zone scheme. 16m deep threat WR with a terrible deep throwing QB. 3-4 defenders playing the 4-3. Athletic QB chained to the pocket.

I heart Kelly. Philbin seems like a fraud.

---------- Post added at 10:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 PM ----------



All combined with a super easy schedule.

It all caught up to us though
 
Let's stop trying to copy other teams formulas, it never works out.

This team needs to find it's own formula, and do what they think is right instead of copying other teams, or going with with what'd trendy. By the time you get where you want to be, there's a new trend anyway, and teams have figured it out.
 
Seattle has a sound philosophy, and they draft players that fit that philosophy. They identified Thomas and Chancellor - ideal compliments at S. They had Chris Clemons and Bruce Irving, but they bring in Avril and Bennett. Unlike teams that just say it, they actually believe you can never have too many quality pass rushers, and it shows. They draft another big CB just about every season. They already had Lynch, but they drafted 220+lb RB's in each of the last two drafts (who are both very good). Miami could have drafted Turbin, btw, but chose Miller. They have clear visions for both sides of the ball, and they're excellent at finding players that fit that vision. After almost every Seattle draft (the one with Earl Thomas being the exception), most analysts give them something like a B- and talk about the confusing picks. They built their D to effect QB play - while sacrificing a little (very little run D). They're able to do this in large part because of Sherman and Thomas. While they may not be built to stop the run with their front 7 like SF, when you drop Chancellor into the box as the 8th man, they're about as tough as anyone, but that unit is built to be the best pas D in the league (pass rushers, CB's, tall, athletic LB's, and all-world S's). It's why they're able to stifle Brees one week and shut down Gore then next.

On offense, they play like they trust their D - as they should. During the SF/SEA game, I told my GF that a punt was a wash (especially early) - rather than a win for the D. Seattle racks up carries for Lynch, and even the great D's begin to show cracks come the 3rd and 4th quarters. Combine that with a QB who doesn't mind throwing after handing the ball off 5+ straight times and has the ability to make big plays. During the Denver/NE game, Simms mentioned that the Broncos felt they lost to NE during the regular season, because they ran the ball too much and lost the rhythm in their passing game. Never heard Wilson complain about this issue.

So you have a clear vision that translates to sustainable success, and you're good at identifying the players that fit that vision. It doesn't sound hard, but there's only one Seattle in the NFL.

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I actually didn't think Seattle would be THIS good this season, but I still picked them to win the SB, because they match up so well with the top tier teams. That pass D is a trump card, and the running game is a will tester. The only difficult match up (on paper) is SF.
 
The Sparano system was garbage. Whats your point? Did you want to keep it? Given the choice of more Sparano or the promise of Philbin, its hard to fault the fans. How was anyone 2 guess that Philbin would make the O worse.

Sorry. But your just lost in the weeds. I can no longer debate someone who puts words in my mouth and then moves the goal posts to suit their needs.
 
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