mike pouncey...panthers game tale of the tape

[Mr. Magoo]

If what I highlighted above is true, then we're not really disagreeing.

Unless that philosophy is a part of the way you look at Pouncey's individual game evaluations. The guy's "impact" is one thing when you're grading him as a draft prospect or as a free agent, but that's not the way I look at it game to game.

 

[MD]

It's the same concept as Ginn being drafted as high as he was relative to performance. Is Pouncey worth the difference between his skill set and Berger compared to drafting another need or trading down.

I liked what I saw from Pouncey except the short yardage plays which he'll learn to get lower. I didn't like the direction of the pick but it is what it is now.

 

[ckparrothead]

im sorry CK, but you just seem to be on a ryan mallett ireland drafts like a douche agenda lately.

We needed a center. We got one. Thats how I look at it. And all this percentage crap doesnt mean squat to me. Just keep progressing. mistakes are a part of life. learn from them and move on to better things. I have full faith that pouncey can do that. that is what is important.

Ryan Mallett has nothing to do with this. That argument seems like a crutch for a weak mind.

 

[Kdawg954]

I agree with your assessment hooshoops. This guy will be elite. I love how he'd get in defensive players faces too. He seems like he plays with passion, intensity, and malice, and he talks. But unlike Crowder, which always rubbed me the wrong way, he seems to play BIGGER than he talks. Love it.

Wouldn't it be nice if Henne broke out this year, securing our QB position, allowing us to draft a stud offensive lineman for the right side or an elite athlete at TE? One more YOUNG piece to that right side and we are set for the next 5 years..

I dream of the scenario where we do NOT have to draft a QB next year . . . what the hell would we draft? I was banking on ILB, but that seems to be solved with Burnett and Dansby. The favorite would have to be a pass rusher I think, unless like you said an elite TE is there or more likely a stud OLineman. I guess FS would be in the mix as well if Jones/Clemmons don't have the goods plus we still need a replacement for Bell as SS.

Good problems to have at this point

 

[CANDolphan]

Ryan Mallett has nothing to do with this. That argument seems like a crutch for a weak mind.

That's a pretty weak rebuttal to a claim that may very well have merit to it. I'm not going to flat out say you're biased, but to say that it's an argument "for a weak mind" is disingenuous at best. That's all.

 

[WVDolphan]

I dont believe too many people question Pouncey's ability to block. Its the snapping that most people have an issue with. The regular snaps are harder to evaluate because you cant be too sure that QB from UF just couldnt handle the snaps. It couldve been both he and the QB to blame. Its hard to tell. However, Pouncey's shotgun snaps in this last game looked just like those ones from the original tecmo bowl.

 

[ChambersWI]

I dream of the scenario where we do NOT have to draft a QB next year . . . what the hell would we draft? I was banking on ILB, but that seems to be solved with Burnett and Dansby. The favorite would have to be a pass rusher I think, unless like you said an elite TE is there or more likely a stud OLineman. I guess FS would be in the mix as well if Jones/Clemmons don't have the goods plus we still need a replacement for Bell as SS.

Good problems to have at this point

Screw that, if Henne develops into a good QB this year, and we have any of those top notch LBs (especially Vontez Burfict) staring us in the face, you take them Dansby and Burnett be damned. Burfict is the best LB prospect since Willis, and might be a better prospect than him

 

[juniorseau55]

i've heard many people on here saying that mike pouncey only had an ok game or even a bad game...and thats the exact opposite of what i saw when i rewatched the game tape yesterday...so this morning i decided to key pouncey on every snap in the first half and assign a positive negative type grade...here's how it played out...note pounceys snapping is not a part of this evaluation

i counted 27 pass protection plays of which i had a positive grade on 24...there was many plays where pouncey initially off the snap combo blocked with a guard on a dt and they went nowhere...i counted 1 combo block where pouncey made contact and put the dt on his ***...pouncey shows good feet and lateral maneuverability solid hands sits down and anchors well in pass protection...i saw pouncey at the los with his head up identifying potential blitzers and making line calls...one on one pass pro pounceys man never sniffed henne...pouncey shows excellent awareness and has his head on a swivel at all times identifying the correct guard to help on many plays

i counted only 1 true negative play where pouncey snapped the ball combo blocked the dt with the guard to the right and then failed to get off in time and pickup the delayed blitzing lb up the middle who never showed blitz prior to the snap...he saw it but by the time he did he couldn't get over there and the lb forced henne to leave the pocket...as well as colombo letting an inside dt just beeline to the qb while he blocked no one...but thats another deal there

in 19 run blocking plays i counted 6 outright positive win plays 2 outright moved the guy off the ball and out of the hole the back eventually ran thru for solid yardage plays 2 plays where pouncey moved to the 2nd level nicely and made contact with a lb...pretty obvious this kid can get to the 2nd level with ease...by far the most athletic lineman we had in this game

now the negative plays...on the initial goalline stand by the panthers i counted 3 of those 4 plays as negative plays by pouncey...its pretty obvious to me that pouncey on the goalline after snapping the ball fires off too high and lets the dt have all the leverage...he needs to fire off the ball low and then he won't get stood up so much in short yardage...i counted 1 other negative play for pouncey where he initially had solid contact with fua didn't really move him but solid contact but fua got off and got in on the play but bush carried him for a few yards after contact...pouncey i think even on that play smacked his hands together knowing that his man blew that play up

now lets also keep in mind that pouncey didn't get a offseason of ota's or even nfl weight room work due to the lockout...he needs to get stronger and play with better technique on the goalline but there's no reason to think this kid can't become one hell of an interior olineman in time...yes i still say he's a better left guard fit cause he's a terrific move player than center but this kid graded out very well in this game and with time and reps and work on some things from a technique standpoint and added strength in an nfl offseason program there's no reason to think he can't play a heck of a center in our system...i think he's got more upside than ryan kalil who the panthers just made the highest paid center in football

What about MURtha?

 

[Shouright]

I think it's absolutely insane that we're making any conclusions at all about a rookie's ability based on two preseason games after a shortened camp.

I think it's fine to take a look at what he's doing, but no conclusions should be made at all about his ability at this point.

 

[hoops]

Nice job, hoops. I agree, as usual. But it must be said that Sione Fua is not a player that really tests Pouncey at the POA. We won't really see where he's at until we face Vince Wilfork and the Patriots (our next two preseason opponents -- Dallas and Tampa Bay -- favor athleticism over strength on their defensive lines). Hopefully Pouncey's been taking notes on how to deal with Paul Soliai, because the early reports in camp were that Soliai had Pouncey on skates at times out there.

absolutely...no argument from me there at all...i think pouncey is gonna fare better against these 4-3 dts than the mammoth 3-4 nose tackles like most young centers while they develop their strength and technique...but the tools are there...and i agree the next 2 opponents are more athletic interior d front than can't move off the spot forces...pounceys definitely got a lot of things going for him though from an athletic stand point and his feet...very nimble kid

i think with wilfork and some of these other noses we're just gonna have to give pouncey plenty of guard help...which means someone else on the pats dline is gonna have a likely favorable matchup ie haynesworth etc...might have to try and stay away from the center of the line as the poa...run more to the tackles and off tackle...difficult to do in short yardage no doubt...

 

[hoops]

This is not meant to be offensive to anyone but I think this might be an issue of low standards.

24 of 27 pass plays is 89%. 15 of 19 run plays is 79%. Altogether that's 85%. That's not really that great, especially not against Sione Fua the rookie 3rd rounder.

The most concerning things were:

A) The consistency of his failures in certain situations (e.g. goal line), and
B) The consistency with which his best plays and best attributes (getting out into space) went unseen and/or unrewarded due to the insufficient blocking around him.

We're not just grading on the basis of "for a rookie" here. He's a starter. He's the 1st round pick. He's the guy that the Dolphins took at #15 overall when they could have taken any number of other guys, such as Mark Ingram. That forces you to assess his impact on the team relative to others. I raised the question when he was drafted...how often is he going to be show great things that Joe Berger did not or could not show, that ALSO impact the success of a play? In other words, how much impact is he going to have above a Joe Berger? Everyone just naturally assumes the guy is going to be better than Berger, be more impactful. But that's not what I saw the other night. I saw a guy who is better than Berger in space and out in the second level, but whose talents in that area were wasted by bad blocking from his fellow lineman, and I saw a guy who didn't have near the strength at the point of attack that Berger had, especially in those short yardage and red zone plays. So his weaknesses relative to Berger got exposed, while his strengths relative to Berger got drowned.

And that is a concern.

in fairness two of the plays that i did not give positives to pouncey were the reverse where he was out like he was supposed to be but the play never developed and he never did anything and the screen to bush where he can't get thru traffic in time and incogs out front and incog just lets the lb come up from the inside and decleat bush...really i'd say in pass pro only one play was there a negative grade i could associate with pounceys play so its more a 26 out of 27 situation...and i think thats pretty damn good against anyone for an nfl rookie in his second exhibition game

i can't knock the guy cause incog can't pull worth a hoot or has zero awareness for whats goin on around him at left guard just like i can't knock him cause vernon carey is too slow footed and lacks the lateral agility to cut block lbs in space etc...it is what it is with those guys...i'm just going by is pouncey doing his job and does he show high end tools and admittedly the panthers d front stunk in that game but pouncey did what he was supposed to do...barring the goalline stand where he fires off the ball too high and gets stood up and in a few cases pushed back...again though this isn't a he lacks talent thing this is a he needs to work on his technique in short yardage and goalline and realize low man wins ...i would hope there's a coach in that building who sees this tape and coaches him up...does he need to get stronger to be more effective one on one at the poa???no question...and time in an nfl weight room and weight program should help remedy that

as for the actual "value" of taking pouncey at #15 its never good draft pick value when you had as many needs as we did to take interior oline in the top 20...and its why it rarely ever happens...heck in the last decade we took the highest interior oline drafted player in the league...that should tell you where teams around the league place interior oline from a draft value aspect...its not good draft value by any means...but pounceys a dolphin now and it is what it is and the only thing i can do about it now is evaluate the guy on tape for the actual player that he is...that doesn't mean though that i can't watch mark ingram in new orleans and dream about what could have been here in miami...i know we missed out there...

 

[hoops]

odrick and murtha...will do

when i get them done i'll post them in this thread

 

[UHHS]

in fairness two of the plays that i did not give positives to pouncey were the reverse where he was out like he was supposed to be but the play never developed and he never did anything and the screen to bush where he can't get thru traffic in time and incogs out front and incog just lets the lb come up from the inside and decleat bush...really i'd say in pass pro only one play was there a negative grade i could associate with pounceys play so its more a 26 out of 27 situation...and i think thats pretty damn good against anyone for an nfl rookie in his second exhibition game

i can't knock the guy cause incog can't pull worth a hoot or has zero awareness for whats goin on around him at left guard just like i can't knock him cause vernon carey is too slow footed and lacks the lateral agility to cut block lbs in space etc...it is what it is with those guys...i'm just going by is pouncey doing his job and does he show high end tools and admittedly the panthers d front stunk in that game but pouncey did what he was supposed to do...barring the goalline stand where he fires off the ball too high and gets stood up and in a few cases pushed back...again though this isn't a he lacks talent thing this is a he needs to work on his technique in short yardage and goalline and realize low man wins ...i would hope there's a coach in that building who sees this tape and coaches him up...does he need to get stronger to be more effective one on one at the poa???no question...and time in an nfl weight room and weight program should help remedy that

as for the actual "value" of taking pouncey at #15 its never good draft pick value when you had as many needs as we did to take interior oline in the top 20...and its why it rarely ever happens...its not good draft value by any means...but pounceys a dolphin now and it is what it is and the only thing i can do about it now is evaluate the guy on tape for the actual player that he is...that doesn't mean though that i can't watch mark ingram in new orleans and dream about what could have been here in miami...i know we missed out there...

The LB that decleated Bush was Pounceys guy, he did not get out where he was supposed to be. Look at the play, Incognito was to go downfield but turned and saw Pouncey was not out there, stopped and by then it was too late. If you watched ther replay from the back of the defense angle, which they showed, its as clear as a bell amigo. As some said, this game was good to get banged around in but we are not going to face many Ds that play in this formation. Pouncey is still not sure of some calls and bouncing around the field like a young energetic player does not spell he will be good or not good. The kid is not going to be his brother.

I love on this site how people watch plays and since one of their favorites were in it all else is forgotten about. Pouncey was able to bounce around against thid defense why ? Because no one was on his head all game. Come Jets, Pats and Buffalo someone is going to be breathing in his face all game. Time will tell, he is decent, young athletic but a shade in talent of what his brother is.

 

[hoops]

The LB that decleated Bush was Pounceys guy, he did not get out where he was supposed to be. Look at the play, Incognito was to go downfield but turned and saw Pouncey was not out there, stopped and by then it was too late. If you watched ther replay from the back of the defense angle, which they showed, its as clear as a bell amigo. As some said, this game was good to get banged around in but we are not going to face many Ds that play in this formation. Pouncey is still not sure of some calls and bouncing around the field like a young energetic player does not spell he will be good or not good. The kid is not going to be his brother.

I love on this site how people watch plays and since one of their favorites were in it all else is forgotten about. Pouncey was able to bounce around against thid defense why ? Because no one was on his head all game. Come Jets, Pats and Buffalo someone is going to be breathing in his face all game. Time will tell, he is decent, young athletic but a shade in talent of what his brother is.

i would normally say thats pounceys man amigo but incog has zero contact with anyone on that play after the snap is way out front and there's nothing to block on the perimeter of the field...incog if he had any awareness at all would see that lb flowing up from the inside and cut him and let pouncey who's late getting over and carey head downfield to make a block...instead incog lets that guy just come freely up between him and pouncey and bush gets blown up...its called awareness you see there's nothing for you to make contact with on the outside but there's a lb coming up from the inside unimpeded you go take him out...not just stand there with a "who...me???" look on your face...which incog is famous for

as for the last part about his brother maurkice was the more nfl ready of the two last year and i agree and said even before the draft this year the better center prospect...maurkice is stronger at the poa than mike but i think mikes the better athlete of the two and better move player which is why i think mike would make an outstanding left guard...

 

[Lilseb93]

I for one liked the Pouncey pick and I still do. He's going to be the leader of this line for a long time.