MLB HOF 2007: Gwynn & Ripken

[phunwin]

Tim Raines should make it in 08 IMO!

808 Stolen Bases
Over 2600 hits
.294 Career Batting Average
.385 OBP
Never struck out 100 times in any season
170 homers, 980 RBI's
7 All Star Games including and AS MVP
Led MLB in stolen bases 4 times including 7 othe top 10 finishes
Top 10 in triples 9 times
Played on 2 Championship Teams
Top 10 in runs scored in 8 seasons


http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/raineti01.shtml



I think Rock should get in. Many will disagree because he's a poor man's Ricky Henderson but I think he is deserving of getting in next year along with Goose and Rice!

Absolutely. I just don't think it will happen because I don't think enough writers appreciate just how good he was. Moreover, we've already seen stars from the 80s get shafted repeatedly. I hope I'm wrong about him, because he deserves a spot.

And incidentally, he was a poor man's Rickey Henderson. Thing is, there's zero shame in that. Henderson was a phenomenal ballplayer, and to be 90% as good as Henderson still makes you HOF caliber.

 

[phunwin]

You take away the streak,and Cal Ripken is a borderline hall of fame player. He wasn't that good on the field.

He played 21 years and in 21 years only about 7 of them are what you would call HALL OF FAME years. He has 3,000 hits yes, but he's a lifetime .276 hitter (or so). That is a clear sign that he wasn't a great player, he just had a ton of at bats and any average player would get 3,000 hits in that many at bats!!

All things considered (streak, 3,000 hits...etc) he belongs in the hall of fame. With that said though, Cal wasn't going to get 100% of the vote and he is a very very overrated player!!

Name five shortstops better than Ripken. I'll give you Honus Wagner for free.

 

[SuavePhin]

You take away the streak,and Cal Ripken is a borderline hall of fame player. He wasn't that good on the field.

He played 21 years and in 21 years only about 7 of them are what you would call HALL OF FAME years. He has 3,000 hits yes, but he's a lifetime .276 hitter (or so). That is a clear sign that he wasn't a great player, he just had a ton of at bats and any average player would get 3,000 hits in that many at bats!!

All things considered (streak, 3,000 hits...etc) he belongs in the hall of fame. With that said though, Cal wasn't going to get 100% of the vote and he is a very very overrated player!!

98% or whatnot i thought for sure that history would have a first 100% guy just because aside from him Tony and Goose, there wasn't a strong list, throw in this is a "steroid era" and Cal is about as clean and classy, not to mention a tremendous player i was thinking he had a good a shot as anyone to get 100% just thought it would be a cool thing to see since watching Cal is what mainly got my interest in baseball to begin with

 

[UCFinfan86]

I agree with MikeO, yes he is a hall of fame player, but one of the more overrated players in history

 

[BigDogsHunt]

I agree with MikeO, yes he is a hall of fame player, but one of the more overrated players in history

I just dont see where this "over-rated" logic comes from, he totally changed the game for a SS:

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/...t_id=1775136&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

He's one of the few players in baseball history who revolutionized the game. Ripken turned shortstop from a defensive position into an offensive one.

"To me, he's a slam dunk even without the streak," said Ken Rosenthal, who covered Ripken with The Baltimore Sun for more than a decade and now works for FOXSports.com. "He proved that a tall man could play shortstop, enabling players like Derek Jeter and Alex Rodriguez to follow.

Ripken took an even bigger step forward in 1983, when he earned the first of his 19 All-Star berths and slugged his way to his first Most Valuable Player Award. He hit .317 with 27 home runs and 102 RBIs, leading the Orioles to an American League East title. Baltimore went on to win the World Series, further seeding his legacy.

The train to Cooperstown kept rolling in the next few years, he would go on to hit at least 20 home runs for an additional eight straight seasons, which was unheard of at the time for a shortstop.

"Ripken, meanwhile, continued his assault on the record books. He narrowly missed out on a Gold Glove in 1990 -- when he made just three errors in 162 games -- and had his best season in 1991. He finally won the fielding hardware that season and batted .323 with career highs in home runs (34) and RBIs (114). He won his second Most Valuable Player Award that season, adding yet another career highlight.

Then when you consider that long before the climax of "the streak" he played every inning of every game his first 5 full seasons in the league its staggering. Playing SS, some consider the 2nd most physically demanding position day-in-day-out only to Catcher.

 

[finfansince72]

Absolutely. I just don't think it will happen because I don't think enough writers appreciate just how good he was. Moreover, we've already seen stars from the 80s get shafted repeatedly. I hope I'm wrong about him, because he deserves a spot.

And incidentally, he was a poor man's Rickey Henderson. Thing is, there's zero shame in that. Henderson was a phenomenal ballplayer, and to be 90% as good as Henderson still makes you HOF caliber.

I agree about Raines, theres no question he was a elite leadoff man, maybe 2nd or 3rd alltime behind Henderson.
This is another case of the voters thinking too hard. The Baseball HOF voters try their best to keep the HOF pure, I respect that, but they take it way too far IMO. I watched Raines and Dawson play, I dont remember it ever being a question as to whether or not they were among the very best in the league. After retirement for some reason people seem to forget what players in their prime were like.

 

[finfansince72]

I agree with MikeO, yes he is a hall of fame player, but one of the more overrated players in history

Crazy. Obviously you didnt watch him play. He won the MVP twice, as a shortstop thats amazing. Had one of the highest fielding percentages, set records for power numbers for a shortstop-before Arod that is. I would bother to list his achievements but obviously you have your mind made up. It pays to actually watch players play before calling them overrated.

 

[FinsNYanksFan13]

Absolutely. I just don't think it will happen because I don't think enough writers appreciate just how good he was. Moreover, we've already seen stars from the 80s get shafted repeatedly. I hope I'm wrong about him, because he deserves a spot.

And incidentally, he was a poor man's Rickey Henderson. Thing is, there's zero shame in that. Henderson was a phenomenal ballplayer, and to be 90% as good as Henderson still makes you HOF caliber.

I agree. It's like being a poor man's Bill Gates. What are you worth, only 100 million. Nothing wron with that IMO. Raines should be in!

 

[Section126]

Name five shortstops better than Ripken. I'll give you Honus Wagner for free.

I'll give it a try.

Honus Wagner
Ernie Banks
Alex Rodriguez
Barry Larkin
Miguel Tejada



Those five I consider better.

I have a hard time trying to put Ozzie Smith or anybody else anywhere in his league...so I would say..that he is the clear cut 6th best shortstop in MLB history.

 

[UCFinfan86]

Crazy. Obviously you didnt watch him play. He won the MVP twice, as a shortstop thats amazing. Had one of the highest fielding percentages, set records for power numbers for a shortstop-before Arod that is. I would bother to list his achievements but obviously you have your mind made up. It pays to actually watch players play before calling them overrated.

When did i say he wasn't a great player?? I said he is a hall of famer no doubt!! I just don't think he deserves to be on the pedestal that alot of you are putting him on. Im sorry but i don't think he's one of the top SS's ever

 

[finfansince72]

When did i say he wasn't a great player?? I said he is a hall of famer no doubt!! I just don't think he deserves to be on the pedestal that alot of you are putting him on. Im sorry but i don't think he's one of the top SS's ever

Then why on earth would he be in the HOF? Which is it? Is he great or just a overated player? I dont put Ripken that high up on a pedastal, I just realize hes one of the all time great SS's so its a nobrainer to put him in the Hall. Im not going to call him great then go on to say hes overrated, thats a contridiction.

 

[finfansince72]

I'll give it a try.

Honus Wagner
Ernie Banks
Alex Rodriguez
Barry Larkin
Miguel Tejada



Those five I consider better.

I have a hard time trying to put Ozzie Smith or anybody else anywhere in his league...so I would say..that he is the clear cut 6th best shortstop in MLB history.

Larkin is questionable, but I can see someone putting him up there. Tejada hasnt done it long enough. That list is very suspect, but still even putting him at 6th is still saying hes a great player. He certainly much deserves the 1st ballot induction that he received.

 

[GreenMonster]

You take away the streak,and Cal Ripken is a borderline hall of fame player. He wasn't that good on the field.

He played 21 years and in 21 years only about 7 of them are what you would call HALL OF FAME years. He has 3,000 hits yes, but he's a lifetime .276 hitter (or so). That is a clear sign that he wasn't a great player, he just had a ton of at bats and any average player would get 3,000 hits in that many at bats!!

All things considered (streak, 3,000 hits...etc) he belongs in the hall of fame. With that said though, Cal wasn't going to get 100% of the vote and he is a very very overrated player!!

I would have to disagree.. Cal won ROY, 2 MVP's, 2 Gold Gloves(could have had more), 8 Silver Sluggers, 19 All-Star Teams.. He was an underrated defender.. Certainly one of the top 3 SS of all-time..

 

[UCFinfan86]

Then why on earth would he be in the HOF? Which is it? Is he great or just a overated player? I dont put Ripken that high up on a pedastal, I just realize hes one of the all time great SS's so its a nobrainer to put him in the Hall. Im not going to call him great then go on to say hes overrated, thats a contridiction.

I worded that wrong, i meant Top 3, i think he is the 4-5th best. Which is DEFFINETLY HOF material, which i said i think he was about 3 times now. I think he is overrated because people say he is the best of all time, which i don't agree with. I think his ironman streak makes him overrated, yes it was a GREAT accomplishment, but i think it gives makes him look like a better player then he was.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Morris should be in. His numbers and career is very good, throw in his big games and he's in.

Jim Rice should be in also as with Gossage

People forget how awful Morris was in the 1987 and 1992 playoffs though. Yes he was awesome in 1984 and 1991 but just awful in those other two years. It's funny how they never get mentioned but Game 7 always does.

His ERA is pretty high too. He was a good pitcher in his day but I don't think he's a HOFer. Yes he threw a ton of innings and won 254 games but from what I've read about him he was blessed with tons of run support and was on a lot of very good teams. Add in the fact he was a jerk to the media which won't ever help his case.