My 2 MVPs

Dajesus

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I know Zach won the team MVP this season, and it was well deserved since he registered 180 tackles, but i think the true most valuble players on the Dolphins are Sam Madison and Darrly Gardner. Sure their numbers couldn't compare to Zach's, but the numbers never tell the true story. The numbers I would use to back up my claim are 150 and 30. 150 because both Harrison and Moulds gained more than it in Sam's absence in his two games he missed with a shoulder injury, but looked very average in the 2 rematches with Sam back. 30 because that is how many more YPG our D allowed rushing with out DG in the line up after he was put on IR. Not saying Zach is not valuable, but in his 1 game absence our D didn't have a dramatic let down.
 

Dajesus

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Originally posted by Dolfan984
I know you were doing overall MVP, but who is our offensive MVP?
Last year I really don't think we had 1,but maybee Chambers in the second half of the season. This year it would have to be RW. Even though he hasn't carried 1 ball for us yet, the drop off from him to Minor would be the biggest. Nothing against Travis, but in college or the pros he has never had to carry the ball 20+ times.
 

breckenridge55

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Now, I agree with Gardener, but I don't with Madison. I can recall many times last year where Sam Madison either one, got seperated from his man and made Marion chase after him downfield even though Marion was trying to read and react to the QB, or two, drop passes that hit him right in the hands. I thought Surtain played a hell of a lot better last year than Madison. Remember, they probably got all those yards in Buffalo because one, they throw all the time since they have no running game, and 2, if I'm not mistaking, Fletcher started that game at corner. You don't think they were going to pick on a rookie all game making his first career NFL start? I mean c'mon, you can't ask to give them more than that. And numbers don't tell all the tales anyway.

As for the offensive MVP, you have to pick Chambers, him and Fiedler were the only ones who played all season (except the playoff game) by earning the right to play, not by someone in front of them getting injured. They were also the only 2 who put up decent numbers.
 

iceblizzard69

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Madison was good last year, but he didn't get as many interceptions as usual because QBs just avoided him and didn't throw to the WR he was covering. Thomas was defense MVP and Chambers was offensive MVP.
 

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Originally posted by iceblizzard69
Madison was good last year, but he didn't get as many interceptions as usual because QBs just avoided him and didn't throw to the WR he was covering. Thomas was defense MVP and Chambers was offensive MVP.
Plus Madison missed around 5 games.
 

Muck

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Very true, Ice. QBs completely avoided Madison last year. There's a reason why the other team's best receiver consistently lines up against Surtain. I totally disagree with Breck. Surtain was better in 2000, yes. He was probably one of the top two or three CBs in the league that year. But Sam was far superior in 2001.

Sam had one bad game (against Coles) and that was it. Actually, it was two plays. Sure he dropped a lot of INTs. But that shows you that he was in position. How about that INT he caught against Indy while guarding Harrison on the play where he seperated his shoulder?? That was a thing of beauty.

And there's your difference right there. Sam BAITS Manning when guarding Harrison. Surtain holds and grabs and gets beaten deep by Harrison. Just look at the tape. Manning continually picked on Surtain. Don't mean to be doggin my man. But it's the truth. He simply doesn't have the same cover skills that Madison does (but his cover skills are still top notch).

Sam doesn't get seperated from his man. He never lets his man get by unless he's supposed to bracket or let him go at a certain point. What you're talking about is a poor defensive playcall.

Also, one reason Buffalo got all those yards was because Surtain got bitch-slapped by Moulds on that 80-yard catch and run.
 

IceStorm

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Well, we all know that trying to chose the best player doesn't mean you can just go by the numbers. For example, what numbers would you give an offensive lineman that opened up the hole for a RB? Not to much.
Interceptions can't be the only number used to look at them. Don't knock downs count?

There has to be more then numbers used when selecting a MVP.
 

Baz

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I don't think it is fair to dog on Sam because of dropped INTS. Being in New Mexico, I can't watch every game, so I dunno which INTs he dropped. However, as a defensive back, a lot of those possible picks surprise you. You are chasing the guy, bumping him at the line, eveything a d-back does, and when you finally get a chance to look at the QB, the ball is 1/2 a second away. This is especially the case with the better recievers because most of your attention is on them. QBs throw the ball pretty hard, so when you turn around at the QB, not only is the ball coming fast, its coming hard. If you don't have time to see it coming and adjust to it, its really really hard to pick it off. Besides, Sam doesn't get to many chances at picks anyways.
 

IceStorm

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To me, I prefer the INT. But whether it's a int or a dropped int...at least it's not a reception for the other team. That's always a plus.
 

Dajesus

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Originally posted by breckenridge55
Now, I agree with Gardener, but I don't with Madison. I can recall many times last year where Sam Madison either one, got seperated from his man and made Marion chase after him downfield even though Marion was trying to read and react to the QB, or two, drop passes that hit him right in the hands.


Breck I am sorry but you are way off base here. There is something called a zone defense. In this zone defense the corners have the short to mid range and the safetys have the deep routes. They do this because it is almost impossible to run backwards with a WR for 30 yards so it is much easier to release the man to the safety. It also allows the corner to pick up the delay pattern of the TE or RB. So it wasn't Sam geting beet it was the safety blowing his deep responsabilty. If you watch last years games it was unbeleavable how unoften the opossing QB challenged Sam. I think the 1st Jet's game and the Rams game were the only times he has more than 3 passes against. Witch is even more amazing if you look at how bad our pass rush was last season.

PS he only missed 2 games
 

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Originally posted by Dajesus
Originally posted by breckenridge55
Now, I agree with Gardener, but I don't with Madison. I can recall many times last year where Sam Madison either one, got seperated from his man and made Marion chase after him downfield even though Marion was trying to read and react to the QB, or two, drop passes that hit him right in the hands.


Breck I am sorry but you are way off base here. There is something called a zone defense. In this zone defense the corners have the short to mid range and the safetys have the deep routes. They do this because it is almost impossible to run backwards with a WR for 30 yards so it is much easier to release the man to the safety. It also allows the corner to pick up the delay pattern of the TE or RB. So it wasn't Sam geting beet it was the safety blowing his deep responsabilty. If you watch last years games it was unbeleavable how unoften the opossing QB challenged Sam. I think the 1st Jet's game and the Rams game were the only times he has more than 3 passes against. Witch is even more amazing if you look at how bad our pass rush was last season.

PS he only missed 2 games
Madison missed 3 games.

http://www.nfl.com/players/3863.htm
 

breckenridge55

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Yes, I know about the zone defense, however, I am talking about when we aren't playing zone, when Brock isn't supposed to be back-pedaling. Those are the plays I am talking about. You're right they rarely did throw at Madison. But, when they did they were fairly successful. They threw at Surtain far more and Surtain played very well considering how many times they threw to him. That's why I thought Surtain had a better year. QB's thought Surtain was easier to pass on, they were obviously wrong becuase Surtain didn't let much up last year (other than penalty yards). And in response to the guy who is talking about how hard it is to pick a ball off. Yes, it is that hard for US, but these guys are NFL players. They are getting millions every year to catch balls that they see in less than a 1/2 second. That's their job. They are supposed to be able to do it and they are supposed to do it well. If you are a corner in the NFL and you can't pick a ball off, you shouldn't be in the NFL. DG, Zach, and JT are still my MVP's.
 
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