My Observations Camp Day 3 | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

My Observations Camp Day 3

Nice write up! Thanks for doing it.

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention......early in the practice I saw Clyde Gates make an awkward move and it seemed like his knee was bothering him for much of practice. He never really let anyone know but I kept watching him and you could tell he wasn't right. I would say his chances of staying on this team are slipping.....especially with Pruitt, Wallace, and Fuller looking as good as they do.

Just saw Volin tweet that Gates is sitting out today so you were definitely spot on there.
 
I don't get why everyone always starts off with "it was hot", duh it is hot, it's Miami. Must have read the same introductory line the past 8 years on Finheaven.

Seriously?! I'm from Miami and I know what hot is, but when you sit in the baking sun for 3 straight hours sitting on metal bleachers....that's HOT! That's probably why people keep saying it.
 
Thanks for posting these - really appreciated.

I see Armando Salguero is quoting Philbin as saying the quality of pass protection by the o-line is causing "a little bit of a concern". In Philbin's presser, he referenced how the defense is a little on top and that was to be expected. Did you get any sense of the O-line struggling in pass pro?

The D-Line definitely has a step up right now on the OL but the D-line is experienced and has consistency. The O-line is getting better on the right side. I saw a whole bunch of guys rotating at RG. But, Martin played most of RT during 11-11 with 1st team.
 
I don't get why everyone always starts off with "it was hot", duh it is hot, it's Miami. Must have read the same introductory line the past 8 years on Finheaven.

How about appreciating the fact that the poster took the time to provide some first hand insight? Thus, IMO that gives them the right to write whatever the hell they want, how the want!....UN-FREAKING-BELIEVABLE!!
 
Yeah the "it's hot" crap gets old. It's hot all over the U.S.. Here in Wisconsin we have dew points in the 70's and heat indexes over 100 degrees. We've had a lot of that this summer and the same thing here today.
 
One guy I would like to hear more about on the defensive line is Derrick Shelby of Utah. I know, just another Utah pass rusher, which carries negative connotations from the Koa Misi pick...but this guy is more interesting to me as a pure DL than Misi was. Misi was always more of a LB convert. He got to the passer creatively at Utah, so you project him as a linebacker blitzer. It's just too bad Miami all too often tried to have Misi get to the passer traditionally, because of some scheme limitations involved with Cam Wake's style.

But anyway back to Shelby, he's not a fast guy and you're probably not going to have him play linebacker, but he is a strong guy with good burst, balance and flexibility, and best of all he's always got his eyes on the quarterback and is ready to bat passes in the air. He gets his arms up and he's got enough leg strength that no matter what he's doing in his pass rush he can get air and attack the ball as it leaves the QB's hands. He's very ball-oriented, it's no coincidence he intercepted that one ball against Pittsburgh this year, nor that he had an unusual number (7) of passes defended. He's got some resiliency to him too, and it's no coincidence he broke a bunch of tackles and returned that interception for a touchdown, either. Nor that he recovered a fumble in the end zone against BYU for another touchdown in 2011.

Anyway he's not necessarily a future star but he's a guy I'd like to see how he translates. I'd compare him as a cross between Dexter Davis and Pernell McPhee. Dexter Davis was a 6'1" and 244 lbs underrated DE I liked back in the 2010 NFL Draft, because he was physical, resilient, had unusual balance and flexibility, a feisty player. He played as a rookie and in only 49 pass rush snaps he had a sack, a hit and 9 pressures. He also made some plays against the run, and had a big positive grade from PFF despite his only playing 80 snaps. Remember that PFF's grades are cumulative, so there's an element of the more snaps you play the more positive your grade can be if you're a good player. Davis spent all of 2011 injured if I'm not mistaken. Pernell McPhee was a similar resilient player but feisty as hell, bigger and bulkier at 6'3' and 270 lbs, and he's made a huge name for himself in Baltimore rushing the passer over guard in strict pass rush situations. Shelby is a little bit of a cross between the two in that he's got the explosiveness of Davis (which is verified in workouts) but closer to the size and speed of McPhee. I know that makes him sound like a better player than either, but I'm not saying that. Anyway, he's a guy I've tabbed as someone I'll be watching closely in the preseason.

Here's a video of Matt Barkley against Utah in 2011. The nice thing about it is that probably 85-90% of the snaps in this video, you see Derrick Shelby #90 rushing the passer or dropping back into coverage. Shelby really made an impact in this game.

[video=youtube;ebLa2pMr8Mc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebLa2pMr8Mc[/video]

But I'm hearing some decent things about Jacquies Smith. Smith always impressed me more as a linebacker at Mizzou than he did as a DL, but if there's one thing you can say about him it's that he's highly mobile and that will avail him. He's also very well built, a gym rat type. Body will not be a problem with him.
 
One guy I would like to hear more about on the defensive line is Derrick Shelby of Utah. I know, just another Utah pass rusher, which carries negative connotations from the Koa Misi pick...but this guy is more interesting to me as a pure DL than Misi was. Misi was always more of a LB convert. He got to the passer creatively at Utah, so you project him as a linebacker blitzer. It's just too bad Miami all too often tried to have Misi get to the passer traditionally, because of some scheme limitations involved with Cam Wake's style.

But anyway back to Shelby, he's not a fast guy and you're probably not going to have him play linebacker, but he is a strong guy with good burst, balance and flexibility, and best of all he's always got his eyes on the quarterback and is ready to bat passes in the air. He gets his arms up and he's got enough leg strength that no matter what he's doing in his pass rush he can get air and attack the ball as it leaves the QB's hands. He's very ball-oriented, it's no coincidence he intercepted that one ball against Pittsburgh this year, nor that he had an unusual number (7) of passes defended. He's got some resiliency to him too, and it's no coincidence he broke a bunch of tackles and returned that interception for a touchdown, either. Nor that he recovered a fumble in the end zone against BYU for another touchdown in 2011.

Anyway he's not necessarily a future star but he's a guy I'd like to see how he translates. I'd compare him as a cross between Dexter Davis and Pernell McPhee. Dexter Davis was a 6'1" and 244 lbs underrated DE I liked back in the 2010 NFL Draft, because he was physical, resilient, had unusual balance and flexibility, a feisty player. He played as a rookie and in only 49 pass rush snaps he had a sack, a hit and 9 pressures. He also made some plays against the run, and had a big positive grade from PFF despite his only playing 80 snaps. Remember that PFF's grades are cumulative, so there's an element of the more snaps you play the more positive your grade can be if you're a good player. Davis spent all of 2011 injured if I'm not mistaken. Pernell McPhee was a similar resilient player but feisty as hell, bigger and bulkier at 6'3' and 270 lbs, and he's made a huge name for himself in Baltimore rushing the passer over guard in strict pass rush situations. Shelby is a little bit of a cross between the two in that he's got the explosiveness of Davis (which is verified in workouts) but closer to the size and speed of McPhee. I know that makes him sound like a better player than either, but I'm not saying that. Anyway, he's a guy I've tabbed as someone I'll be watching closely in the preseason.

Here's a video of Matt Barkley against Utah in 2011. The nice thing about it is that probably 85-90% of the snaps in this video, you see Derrick Shelby #90 rushing the passer or dropping back into coverage. Shelby really made an impact in this game.

[video=youtube;ebLa2pMr8Mc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebLa2pMr8Mc[/video]

But I'm hearing some decent things about Jacquies Smith. Smith always impressed me more as a linebacker at Mizzou than he did as a DL, but if there's one thing you can say about him it's that he's highly mobile and that will avail him. He's also very well built, a gym rat type. Body will not be a problem with him.

CK - what have you seen or heard about either Marcus Brown or V. Agnew.....Brown looked good in practice. They stood out more than Nolan Carroll on Sunday.
 
Very little, other than this not being the first time Agnew has impressed in camp. He spent all of last year on the practice squad.
 
what scheme limitations with cam wake forced miami to always have misi trying to beat tackles as an edge rusher??? as for a traditional lb switch i told you specifically that misi off what i saw at the senior bowl should be tried at lb after he proved to all the doubters than he couldn't provide pass rush off the edge and win against tackles cause he was a one trick pony that lacked any real tools in that regard and you told me you didn't see him as a traditional 43 lb convert...

his pass rush success at utah was more about blitzing gaps etc and being able to roam around the los than it ever was beating a tackle one on one off the edge...
 
what scheme limitations with cam wake forced miami to always have misi trying to beat tackles as an edge rusher??? as for a traditional lb switch i told you specifically that misi off what i saw at the senior bowl should be tried at lb after he proved to all the doubters than he couldn't provide pass rush off the edge and win against tackles cause he was a one trick pony that lacked any real tools in that regard and you told me you didn't see him as a traditional 43 lb convert...

his pass rush success at utah was more about blitzing gaps etc and being able to roam around the los than it ever was beating a tackle one on one off the edge...

What I repeatedly said about Misi as a 3-4 ILB (or I suppose 4-3 OLB would be the same thing) is that while he may be destined for that later in his career, it shouldn't happen right away because he's not ready for it. He was a defensive lineman at Utah. He may not have always played like a defensive lineman in terms of traditional pass rush but he was still a defensive lineman and to make the conversion to a 4-3 Sam or Will would be such a shock right away, it wipes out his draft value.

We're now into his third year of his career and he's making the transition from 3-4 OLB to 4-3 OLB, which is less of a shock than DE to 4-3 OLB, and Kevin Coyle has even now noted that transition is the biggest one any player on the defense is making. He wouldn't have been able to make an even bigger transition than that as a rookie coming out of Utah. He'd have been practice squad material.

From the start I said he's not really a DL prospect but rather a guy that can play some 3-4 OLB right away if you get him a mix of pass rush duties and keep his coverage duties a little light. He's a blitzer, not a pass rusher.

What Miami did though is run a scheme where if he wanted to make an impact he had to be able to rush the passer with his hand in the dirt opposite Cameron Wake, and a big part of the reason they did this is because Wake was never a real 3-4 OLB. He was always a Mathis-esque 4-3 defensive end being asked to play 3-4 outside linebacker, which I don't mind to tell you the truth, but they always defaulted back to a nickel approach on pass rush downs that is more similar to what you see from 4-3 teams than 3-4 teams. A big part of that reason was Cam Wake's talent profile.
 
to my knowledge most 34 teams end up in 4 man front looks in nickle...i understand what you're saying about wake and i don't disagree with it but why keep asking a guy who was figured out and tackles could sit on his one rush move to keep rushing off the edge when he was making no progress??? why wouldn't miamis staff have looked at his work at utah and let him stand up and roam similar to what we saw with jason taylor as a 34 olb at times...it made no sense...misi can be an effective pass rusher provided as you stated it's in more a blitz stand up shooting gaps type role...if anything its a failure on the dcs part to realize this and say if i can have jason taylor at this advanced age roam and rush why can't i put misi in the position to get the most bang for my buck...overloads shoot gaps etc...instead of the damn texas two step with nfl tackles

i don't think it's so much limitations with wake...i think it's a failure on the coaching staffs part to play to misis strengths as a pass rusher
 
to my knowledge most 34 teams end up in 4 man front looks in nickle...i understand what you're saying about wake and i don't disagree with it but why keep asking a guy who was figured out and tackles could sit on his one rush move to keep rushing off the edge when he was making no progress??? why wouldn't miamis staff have looked at his work at utah and let him stand up and roam similar to what we saw with jason taylor as a 34 olb at times...it made no sense...misi can be an effective pass rusher provided as you stated it's in more a blitz stand up shooting gaps type role...if anything its a failure on the dcs part to realize this and say if i can have jason taylor at this advanced age roam and rush why can't i put misi in the position to get the most bang for my buck...overloads shoot gaps etc...instead of the damn texas two step with nfl tackles

I have no answers to those questions. I didn't feel like they were using him to the best of his ability.

And now I'll add that with him going from 3-4 OLB to essentially a two-down 4-3 Sam or Will or whatever it is they're playing him, the rose has lost its bloom on that draft pick. You can't say he's a bust because he's given you lots of snaps already and he could have a ten year career giving you more snaps. It's not a BAD pick...but I don't know you can isolate it as a GOOD one either. Which really if you think about it is the story of Jeff Ireland's career as a drafter.
 
well it was a failure at 34 olb...so i guess given they couldn't devise ways or envision ways to get something from him as a pass rusher in that regard trying him as a 2 down 43 backer is the only other option...that or cutting him

never made any sense to me that jason taylor could go wherever he wanted as a rush lb and misi always always always had to try and beat nfl caliber tackles with average get off no counter move to his bull rush and no polish...rediculous
 
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