My Offensive Overview: Balance, not greatness
- Thread starter NYFCat
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Or the OL will scrutinized.iceblizzard69
☠️ Banned ☠️
Konrad is a very good athlete. He needs to work on his blocking, but he can run and catch the ball very well. This year, Norv will show you his skills.
scotgif
Seasoned Veteran
I think everyone is just waiting for Konrad to "explode" and have that "breakout" season. I do not know if he has that type of star talent and potential. But I do feel however, that he can perform at a very high level and be a productive part of an offense that utilizes his abilities correctly.
I also, feel that there were comparisons to several past and present players that just are not warranted. For instance, there have been comparisons to people like Moose Johnson, Larry Csonka, Mike Alstott. I feel that this is just wishful thinking. If you look at his style, as oppsosed to his physical stature, you will see that these comparisons are nowhere near to being accurate.
Rob is more a "finesse" type of FB, if there can be such a thing. While his blocking has improved, he will never remind anyone of Moose. He does on the other hand, have soft hands. He needs to become more consistent and dependable IMO. He has seemed to be the heartbreaker kind of player. Almost there, but just not good enough to either hang on to that pass, or power ahead for the critical TD, or first down.
I don't forsee superstardom for him, but in Turner's FB friendly system, he can now realize more of his potential than at any other time since he has been a pro.
I also, feel that there were comparisons to several past and present players that just are not warranted. For instance, there have been comparisons to people like Moose Johnson, Larry Csonka, Mike Alstott. I feel that this is just wishful thinking. If you look at his style, as oppsosed to his physical stature, you will see that these comparisons are nowhere near to being accurate.
Rob is more a "finesse" type of FB, if there can be such a thing. While his blocking has improved, he will never remind anyone of Moose. He does on the other hand, have soft hands. He needs to become more consistent and dependable IMO. He has seemed to be the heartbreaker kind of player. Almost there, but just not good enough to either hang on to that pass, or power ahead for the critical TD, or first down.
I don't forsee superstardom for him, but in Turner's FB friendly system, he can now realize more of his potential than at any other time since he has been a pro.
codename47
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Re: I was critical of Williams...
Please enlighten us as to some of these "off-field antics" you refer to. And please don't say giving interviews with his helmet on, that's bogus.
Here's a kid that at UT could no no wrong, everyone cheered for him, everyone spoke highly of him... then right after he wins the Heisman, Mike Ditka proclaims him the next Walter Payton and offers the entire draft for him to any taker in January; then all the sports media outlets start the same crap they pulled when Manning came out: try to find anything wrong with RW and find someone who's supposedly better (E. James).
So come draft day, Ditka makes the trade (8 picks for Williams), and declares him the final piece of the puzzle, the ticket to the SB, and makes him a marked man in the NFL.
Then he gets his ankle hurt, Ditka doesn't let him heal, plays him against doctors' advice, he gets another bad injury (a hyper-extended elbow), and basically plays his rookie season on one foot and one arm.
Come the next season, he delivers 100 yds per game, until Week 10, until he gets a broken ankle.
The next offseason, the new coach drafts a "gamebreaker" (Haslett's word) RB in the first round of the draft. RW response? Came into minicamp in the best shape of his life, and the "gamebreaker" drafted in the first round rode the bench all season long, delegated to return kicks, playing in like 10 ofensive plays all season long, not able to unseat RW as the starter, even though it was known the coach did not like RW and wanted to get rid of him.
How ready to play was RW? By game 12, he had 1055 yards rushing and 482 yards receiving. But, because of the 4 game debacle the Saints went through the last quarter of the season, he got to carry the ball an average 13 times per game the last 4 games, and only saw 13 balls thrown his way in that same 4 game span.
RW had absolutely nothing to do with the "lockerroom circus" you refer to. His name never came up with anything that supposedly happened in that lockerroom. Your comment "The Saints locker room was a circus last year and Ricky Williams was the bearded lady" is just plain ignorant.
Every season, RW has come to play football, and left everything he got on the field. You cannot ask for better attitude than RW's, who with everything that has occured around him since Ditka lauded him as the next Payton, I am surprise still has the attitude he has. He may not be the next Walter payton (and who is??) but RW is the type of player you want on your team.
Social anxiety disorder should not be in quotes. It is actually a medical condition a lot of people suffer. RW is taking Paxil for his condition.
Please enlighten us as to some of these "off-field antics" you refer to. And please don't say giving interviews with his helmet on, that's bogus.
Here's a kid that at UT could no no wrong, everyone cheered for him, everyone spoke highly of him... then right after he wins the Heisman, Mike Ditka proclaims him the next Walter Payton and offers the entire draft for him to any taker in January; then all the sports media outlets start the same crap they pulled when Manning came out: try to find anything wrong with RW and find someone who's supposedly better (E. James).
So come draft day, Ditka makes the trade (8 picks for Williams), and declares him the final piece of the puzzle, the ticket to the SB, and makes him a marked man in the NFL.
Then he gets his ankle hurt, Ditka doesn't let him heal, plays him against doctors' advice, he gets another bad injury (a hyper-extended elbow), and basically plays his rookie season on one foot and one arm.
Come the next season, he delivers 100 yds per game, until Week 10, until he gets a broken ankle.
The next offseason, the new coach drafts a "gamebreaker" (Haslett's word) RB in the first round of the draft. RW response? Came into minicamp in the best shape of his life, and the "gamebreaker" drafted in the first round rode the bench all season long, delegated to return kicks, playing in like 10 ofensive plays all season long, not able to unseat RW as the starter, even though it was known the coach did not like RW and wanted to get rid of him.
How ready to play was RW? By game 12, he had 1055 yards rushing and 482 yards receiving. But, because of the 4 game debacle the Saints went through the last quarter of the season, he got to carry the ball an average 13 times per game the last 4 games, and only saw 13 balls thrown his way in that same 4 game span.
RW had absolutely nothing to do with the "lockerroom circus" you refer to. His name never came up with anything that supposedly happened in that lockerroom. Your comment "The Saints locker room was a circus last year and Ricky Williams was the bearded lady" is just plain ignorant.
Every season, RW has come to play football, and left everything he got on the field. You cannot ask for better attitude than RW's, who with everything that has occured around him since Ditka lauded him as the next Payton, I am surprise still has the attitude he has. He may not be the next Walter payton (and who is??) but RW is the type of player you want on your team.
Coach_Largent
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Nice write-up. I do have a couple of comments.
For all that went on in the New Orleans locker room, Ricky Williams was NOT/is not a cancer.
The bearded lady comments reads like sour grapes from a guy who probably wanted a different RB, than Williams. Of course in week 10 you'll be lauding praises, just like the Saints fans who wanted him gone moments after drafting McAllister ... they all were ready to trade him last year, and get on with Deuce, then RW went out, did his thing, and nobody could be found that wanted him outta there ...
... then the wheels fell of. The Connell theft incident, the Roaf/Horn/Johnson incident. The players laughing at playcalls in the huddles and on the sidelines. Then the team quit.
Meuller, in a panic to save his job, traded the only payer of value for more picks, and then lost out on signing back Joe Johnson, thereby signing his fate.
My personal belief is that the cheif cancer on that club, and in that locker room is Jim Haslett himself. A guy who never learned the player/coach distance perspective and plays favorites, thereby dividing his team, and pulling the rug out from under himself. The fact that the vocal leader of the the team, Kyle Turley was quoted with this about the RW trade ...
Doesn't sound like the team leader has a problem with him.
BTW --- Social Anxiety Disorder is a very real problem, and adding it in quotes is very demeaning. You wouldn't address schizophrenia in quotes, if he was being treated for it ... ... I would try an edit on that, someone with a family member that has Anxiety disorders may be offended by the flippant attitude towards their issue.
For all that went on in the New Orleans locker room, Ricky Williams was NOT/is not a cancer.
The bearded lady comments reads like sour grapes from a guy who probably wanted a different RB, than Williams. Of course in week 10 you'll be lauding praises, just like the Saints fans who wanted him gone moments after drafting McAllister ... they all were ready to trade him last year, and get on with Deuce, then RW went out, did his thing, and nobody could be found that wanted him outta there ...
... then the wheels fell of. The Connell theft incident, the Roaf/Horn/Johnson incident. The players laughing at playcalls in the huddles and on the sidelines. Then the team quit.
Meuller, in a panic to save his job, traded the only payer of value for more picks, and then lost out on signing back Joe Johnson, thereby signing his fate.
My personal belief is that the cheif cancer on that club, and in that locker room is Jim Haslett himself. A guy who never learned the player/coach distance perspective and plays favorites, thereby dividing his team, and pulling the rug out from under himself. The fact that the vocal leader of the the team, Kyle Turley was quoted with this about the RW trade ...
Doesn't sound like the team leader has a problem with him.
BTW --- Social Anxiety Disorder is a very real problem, and adding it in quotes is very demeaning. You wouldn't address schizophrenia in quotes, if he was being treated for it ... ... I would try an edit on that, someone with a family member that has Anxiety disorders may be offended by the flippant attitude towards their issue.
WharfRat
Practice Squad
Not a bad article ... but I also disagree with the assesment of Konrad. He was a stellar runner/reciever at Syracuse... that's why we drafted him. He's just never been used to his potential in Miami. He has improved his blockings skill to a degree, but they are still not his strength...
I also disagree with your assesment of RW. He was in a bad place at a bad time in NO... he wasn't happy there, they weren'y happy to have him. I think the change of venue to a close knit team like the Dolphins will be just what he needed to shine.
I'd give the OL a little higher grade, assuming they stay healthy this year...
Other than that, I find myself agreeing with most of it. For the most part it was insightful, and well thought out.
I also disagree with your assesment of RW. He was in a bad place at a bad time in NO... he wasn't happy there, they weren'y happy to have him. I think the change of venue to a close knit team like the Dolphins will be just what he needed to shine.
I'd give the OL a little higher grade, assuming they stay healthy this year...
Other than that, I find myself agreeing with most of it. For the most part it was insightful, and well thought out.
IceStorm
The High Tech Bong Monkey!
Decent read.
Agree, disagree.
The article is written from your perspective, from your opinion. Mine differ's slightly at certain points.
As to all these ppl getting uppity about what they've read, it's his opinion.
"someone with a family member that has Anxiety disorders may be offended"
Sorry, but he's still allowed to voice his opinion whether or not it may offend someone. Until it becomes harrassment, it's legal.
But still, we all see where he's coming from and we may suggest other idea's. That's what's great about this board. :)
Agree, disagree.
The article is written from your perspective, from your opinion. Mine differ's slightly at certain points.
As to all these ppl getting uppity about what they've read, it's his opinion.
"someone with a family member that has Anxiety disorders may be offended"
Sorry, but he's still allowed to voice his opinion whether or not it may offend someone. Until it becomes harrassment, it's legal.
But still, we all see where he's coming from and we may suggest other idea's. That's what's great about this board. :)
CRAZYDOLFAN305
We Are Still Going To The SB
You obviously took a lot of time writing this and you did a nice job. One thing I'd like to point out though is about Fiedler and the Norv Turner offense.
Norv's system is not based on a lot of "deep" passes. Deep routes are set up by running the football and using a controlled passing attack to keep the chains moving. The deep passing game comes when the defense keeps creeping up further and further to stop the running game or short passing attack and then bang! You go deep.
Most QB's don't complete a high percentage of deep passes. I still don't know what everyone saw that I didn't see last year. Because Jay missed some deep throws last year. Who doesn't?
How did Chris Chambers lead the NFL as a rookie in YPCA 18.4 if Jay can't get the ball deep? Oh that's right, Chambers bailed him out when the ball wasn't perfect. That's a lot of BS.
The problem is not that Jay can't throw a good deep ball, he can, it's about timing. Deep passes are set up by other plays. The coaches including Turner feel Jay throws and excellent deep ball. Not that he fires rockets like Favre or Elway.
When you can't run the ball and teams can sit back and wait for the pass, it is hard to throw the ball deep. Some fans act like if you just threw the ball deep 10-12 times per game, you'd probably hit on 4 or 5 of them and score some TD's. That's not how it works. You might also get picked off 4 or 5 times.
Also, Norv's gameplan if he has the personnel to do it, is not to win the game in the 4th qtr, it's to get an early lead and hold it by controlling the clock with the running game and waiting for opportunities to take another shot at a quick score.
That's what they did in Dallas. Aikman didn't put up huge passing numbers. If all he did was throw deep passes, don't you think he would have thrown for 300-400 yards more often than he did?
Last year the Dolphins just wanted to stay in the game and have a shot at it in the 4th qtr because they couldn't control the clock with the running game. So they played conservatively with a short passing game, mixed in with the run and hoped for some big plays from somewhere. I think this year they will have a lot more options because they have more talent.
Yes Jay did show a knack for rallying his team late in the game for a victory last year. That's a nice trait to have, but that's not how the Dolphins want to win every week this year.
Aikman wasn't a good comeback QB. I can't even remember a big comeback he had. He let Emmitt run it all day, threw to his TE's and FB's when in trouble and was accurate when a deep route to the WR's was called. And that's not always a bomb, but a deep slant or an out.
That's balance. When your bread and butter is pounding the ball on the ground all day, a lot of opportunities arise during a game because the defense has to do something to stop it. That's when you go deep, when the field is wide open. You have to have the talent though.
How do you think the 49ers and Cowboys got their guys so wide open for all those years? A running game and a lot of talent. LOL!
I guess that is what made Marino so great. The defense knew what he wanted to do and he still did it.
Anyway, that's my opinion of the Turner offense.
Norv's system is not based on a lot of "deep" passes. Deep routes are set up by running the football and using a controlled passing attack to keep the chains moving. The deep passing game comes when the defense keeps creeping up further and further to stop the running game or short passing attack and then bang! You go deep.
Most QB's don't complete a high percentage of deep passes. I still don't know what everyone saw that I didn't see last year. Because Jay missed some deep throws last year. Who doesn't?
How did Chris Chambers lead the NFL as a rookie in YPCA 18.4 if Jay can't get the ball deep? Oh that's right, Chambers bailed him out when the ball wasn't perfect. That's a lot of BS.
The problem is not that Jay can't throw a good deep ball, he can, it's about timing. Deep passes are set up by other plays. The coaches including Turner feel Jay throws and excellent deep ball. Not that he fires rockets like Favre or Elway.
When you can't run the ball and teams can sit back and wait for the pass, it is hard to throw the ball deep. Some fans act like if you just threw the ball deep 10-12 times per game, you'd probably hit on 4 or 5 of them and score some TD's. That's not how it works. You might also get picked off 4 or 5 times.
Also, Norv's gameplan if he has the personnel to do it, is not to win the game in the 4th qtr, it's to get an early lead and hold it by controlling the clock with the running game and waiting for opportunities to take another shot at a quick score.
That's what they did in Dallas. Aikman didn't put up huge passing numbers. If all he did was throw deep passes, don't you think he would have thrown for 300-400 yards more often than he did?
Last year the Dolphins just wanted to stay in the game and have a shot at it in the 4th qtr because they couldn't control the clock with the running game. So they played conservatively with a short passing game, mixed in with the run and hoped for some big plays from somewhere. I think this year they will have a lot more options because they have more talent.
Yes Jay did show a knack for rallying his team late in the game for a victory last year. That's a nice trait to have, but that's not how the Dolphins want to win every week this year.
Aikman wasn't a good comeback QB. I can't even remember a big comeback he had. He let Emmitt run it all day, threw to his TE's and FB's when in trouble and was accurate when a deep route to the WR's was called. And that's not always a bomb, but a deep slant or an out.
That's balance. When your bread and butter is pounding the ball on the ground all day, a lot of opportunities arise during a game because the defense has to do something to stop it. That's when you go deep, when the field is wide open. You have to have the talent though.
How do you think the 49ers and Cowboys got their guys so wide open for all those years? A running game and a lot of talent. LOL!
I guess that is what made Marino so great. The defense knew what he wanted to do and he still did it.
Anyway, that's my opinion of the Turner offense.
akfinfan
FinHeaven VIP
Sorry, but I still say Jay is above "average"