Nfl Qb Position: Absolute Or Relative?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by BigNastyFish, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Thanks for the support. Background in stats and an investor. For those reasons, I like data but abhor absolutes. This HAS to be known by all here, everyone can supply endless stats to prove any draft prospect is, well, whatever is desired to prove. This, to me, is a good example. Yes, an elite QB helps a lot, but not by himself. The data proves that. And it need not be a rare defense. The garden variety top 3 D will do the job. Some seem to see the world as either/or. Nothing else.
     
  2. BigNastyFish

    BigNastyFish A True Fan Donator

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    Right. In simple terms it takes really good team.

    :)
     
  3. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Your missing the point....the three average QB’s that won Superbowls had top 5 ever defenses.

    “Great” to me means historic....one of the best ever...not just that year!
     
  4. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I think repeatability is where the argument favors the great QB/offense. With the exception of Seattle, who have a great QB btw, teams have a very difficult time repeating high-end success on D. Getting to and winning the SB has a lot of randomness baked into it. You want to give yourself as many chances as possible, and to give yourself multiple chances (teams good enough to be in that position), you need a great playcaller, QB, and offense - balance of OL and receiving options.
     
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  5. 39wildman

    39wildman A True Fan

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    1.TOP 12 QB plus top 10 def and offense = SB
    2. avg QB PLUS #1 DEF and great running games= SB
    3 top10 QB -NO RUNNING GAME- below avg DEFENSE + good wr = PLAYOFF Dan marino
    BELOW AVG QB-GOOD WR-POOR DEF/ OLINE play SOMETINE = LOSING SEASON DOLPHINS 2017-2018 6 to 8 win
     
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  6. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Your quote was "3 often mentioned are the 85’ Bears, 00’ Ravens and the 01’ Bucs... all three had very average QB’s...all three had one of the top 5 defenses ever." You're right. I'm not interested in 'top 5 ever Ds.
    Once more, I'm responding to 'top 5 all-time D or an elite QB.' By definition, 'top 5 all-time' is more rare than 'elite QB.' No one can argue that. And I concede an elite QB is more consistent than a top D. That's why I KEEP saying I, and all fans, want an elite QB, or, at a minimum, a top 10 QB. This is NOT either/or.

    The point I'm making is NOT average QBs. It's ANY QB - elite, top, or average. Consider this. Rodgers won the SB in 2010 with a top 3 D. How many years did he win the SB without a top 3 D. How about wilson? How many times has Ben won a SB without a top 3 D? A top 3 D won the SB in 7 of the 10 years I noted. Conversely, Foles (btw, an average QB without a top 5 all-time D), PManning (when he was no longer elite), EManning, and Flacco won.

    I've said too many times already, I'm not saying an elite (or top 10) QB isn't necessary. Never did. I'm all about correcting some myths.
    QBWINZ - I don't even need to comment on that, but there are some here who still say 'just get an elite QB and the SB will come.'
    In today's NFL, the D isn't as important - again, no explanation needed.

    Have I said a top QB is important and I want one? Oh, yeah, I did. And I also said this isn't either/or. It's a top 3 D (not elite or extraordinary) AND a top QB that significantly increase the chance. I could also add a top HC. It's a TEAM. An organization. Top, not historic) Ds win SBs. Not by themselves, just as elite QBs don't win SBs by themselves.
     
  7. BigNastyFish

    BigNastyFish A True Fan Donator

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    Bottom line IMO -- it's actually good news that we don't need a "best ever

    super hero QB" to actually build a TEAM that can consistently challenge for

    championships etc. That said -- of course we NEED a high-performance QB!

    A dude that is capable of playing consistent, highly productive ball and NOT

    cave when it's time to get the pig in the Nzone. And if we can surround that

    dude with a positive compliment including OL, running game and receivers

    that get open and make plays -- we should be VERY EFFECTIVE on O.

    Add a well coached, disciplined, smart, talented D and

    there ya go!
     
  8. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I see nowhere I'd disagree. Even the vaunted Brady won SBs with a D no worse than 8th. The problem is those who claim those of us wanting a top D DON'T want a top QB. That either/or stuff. I'd LOVE an elite QB, but I'm realistic enough to know an elite QB, by himself, has a much lower chance of wining a SB. Yeah, get a "high-performance" QB, but don't ignore the D or the rest of the team. That's why I put so much emphasis on a good HC/OC/DC.
     

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