**Official CBA Thread II - Update: Owners Approve CBA!**

[Jimmy James]

They are not making money because of the NFL, silly. If that was the case, second string punters would make the same advertising money that Tom Brady does.

Beyond that, a man who no longer has NFL ties like John Elway still gets money making commercials (see the one he did with John Bon Jovi). How can that be explained if these fruits come from the tree that is the NFL?

 

[nopony]

Ok dude think of this in lemonade

I want to start a lemonade stand and make a profit, sugar and all the ingredients cost me 50 cents lets say

I wouldnt sell the lemonade for 25 cents because I would be losing money

Owners wont pay players more than they can bring in in revenue, so how do they bring in more? they raise prices

Supply and demand, when an item is hot it goes for more, and when its sitting on the shelf gathering dust you slash prices, why do you think Some teams tickets are more expensive

Ok, Alex22...

What are you going to sell the lemonade for?

A dollar? Let's say a dollar.

Ok, so if the same people are buying your lemonade for a dollar... Why wouldn't you being selling the lemonade for a dollar even if your costs were a nickle?

Goodness of your heart?

Of course not. You would charge what you could get for the lemonade, regardless of your costs.

If your costs are HIGHER than you can sell lemonade for.... then again, your costs haven't set the price because you can't sell it.

See? It's irrelevant.

Owners are not going to voluntarily charge less if payroll goes down... and they are not going to charge more if people won't pay.

 

[nopony]

I don't think it "belongs" to the players. They are employees. If they don't like the company, work for someone else. I have not taken the time to read back four pages so forgive me. Some of these owner helped to shape the NFL while these players were watching TV.

Also cost matters in price, but it does not have to. But there would have to be some other benefit besides the profitablity of a particular business division to make it make sense. We run a few business that do not make money but have other benefits. In simple business, you would want to think about cost for sure. I think the NFL is very much cost based on revenues amd market conditions.

You need to read back in the thread... they are not employees in the sense you mean... they are contracted talent.

They cannot go work for someone else because of the artificial monopoly that the players agreed to. If you want to say "they can go work somewhere else", then get rid of the cap and let everybody go to the highest bidder.

THEN you can make your argument.

But none of us want that.



re: the cost/price.... I am not saying that cost doesn't matter to businesses. My goodness. I am saying that it does not matter to where they set the prices for the product. they sell the product for the most people will pay.

 

[Alex44]

Ok, Alex22...

What are you going to sell the lemonade for?

A dollar? Let's say a dollar.

Ok, so if the same people are buying your lemonade for a dollar... Why wouldn't you being selling the lemonade for a dollar even if your costs were a nickle?

Goodness of your heart?

Of course not. You would charge what you could get for the lemonade, regardless of your costs.

If your costs are HIGHER than you can sell lemonade for.... then again, your costs haven't set the price because you can't sell it.

See? It's irrelevant.

Owners are not going to voluntarily charge less if payroll goes down... and they are not going to charge more if people won't pay.

I think your slightly over looking the point we are trying to make

Of course owners will charge as much as they can, BUT they arent going to spend more than they are making, if the team is bad they cant charge as much just look back a few years ago the Falcons lowerd ticket prices to an insane low of 5 to 10 dollars for some seats, in that case without a cap you cant spend as much on players because you cant make as much and you dont wanna take a loss

 

[nopony]

I think your slightly over looking the point we are trying to make

Of course owners will charge as much as they can, BUT they arent going to spend more than they are making, if the team is bad they cant charge as much just look back a few years ago the Falcons lowerd ticket prices to an insane low of 5 to 10 dollars for some seats, in that case without a cap you cant spend as much on players because you cant make as much and you dont wanna take a loss

Again, that is not costs determining the price, it is what they can sell the tickets for.

Now, price can influence cost, but not the other way around. Unless you are a goofball business owner.

Take the example of the playstation 3, coming out in a while, or the X-Box 360. Both of these units cost HUNDREDS more per unit than they charge the consumer. Why? Because not enough people will pay the rumored $900 each playstation three will cost Sony.


Now there is one sort-of exception to my point, but not directly. We can go into pricing based on perception another time.

 

[phinphan11]

Nopony.... you an economics professor or something?

 

[Jimmy James]

Again, that is not costs determining the price, it is what they can sell the tickets for.

Now, price can influence cost, but not the other way around. Unless you are a goofball business owner.

Take the example of the playstation 3, coming out in a while, or the X-Box 360. Both of these units cost HUNDREDS more per unit than they charge the consumer. Why? Because not enough people will pay the rumored $900 each playstation three will cost Sony.


Now there is one sort-of exception to my point, but not directly. We can go into pricing based on perception another time.

Sony also has other motivations to sell the PS3 for a below-cost figure. They are betting they will more than make that money up with licensing agreements on the software for the units.

 

[PhinGeneral]

Costs have little to no effect on the price of a NFL ticket. NFL owners are doing nothing more than following the paradigm set by the entertainment industry (to which they are related).

About a decade or so ago, the costs of concert tickets and various entertainment started soaring through the roof. It had nothing to do with costs. It had everything to do with being able to charge an amount that people would still be willing to pay for that entertainment.

The NFL is no different.

 

[Jimmy James]

Costs have little to no effect on the price of a NFL ticket.

NFL owners are doing nothing more than following the paradigm set by the entertainment industry (to which they are related). About a decade or so ago, the costs of concert tickets and various entertainment started soaring through the roof. It had nothing to do with costs. It had everything to do with being able to charge an amount that people would still be willing to pay for that entertainment.

The NFL is no different.

Nicely said. When it comes to concerts in particular, I think the difference is that the band of people likely to have money (~50) are now far more likely to desire to go out to see a concert than they were when those 50 year olds were 20. They therefore price the 20 year olds right out of the market.

 

[Alex44]

Again, that is not costs determining the price, it is what they can sell the tickets for.

Now, price can influence cost, but not the other way around. Unless you are a goofball business owner.

Take the example of the playstation 3, coming out in a while, or the X-Box 360. Both of these units cost HUNDREDS more per unit than they charge the consumer. Why? Because not enough people will pay the rumored $900 each playstation three will cost Sony.


Now there is one sort-of exception to my point, but not directly. We can go into pricing based on perception another time.

People in certain areas wont spend a lot on tickets therefor the owners cant pay as much because they will take a loss

Its a buisness you cant spend more than comes in

 

[Finland]

You need to read back in the thread... they are not employees in the sense you mean... they are contracted talent.

They cannot go work for someone else because of the artificial monopoly that the players agreed to. If you want to say "they can go work somewhere else", then get rid of the cap and let everybody go to the highest bidder.

THEN you can make your argument.

But none of us want that.



re: the cost/price.... I am not saying that cost doesn't matter to businesses. My goodness. I am saying that it does not matter to where they set the prices for the product. they sell the product for the most people will pay.

I agree with it all. But, the players can make money (not as much perhaps) in the CFL, in other sports if they would have chosen that or something else like the rest of us. Yes they have worked their life to get there and the career is short. THEY chose that however. Sometimes I wish I worked for a union I could bilk. that is my problem. I do not like the power of unions in any business and I feel the owners have rights and are being held ransome.

Back to price. The owners will get what ever they can regardless of the costs you are correct, 100%. They want money, and chasing the buck is how they got where they are, not because how fair or how humanistic they are.

 

[Finland]

People in certain areas wont spend a lot on tickets therefor the owners cant pay as much because they will take a loss

Its a buisness you cant spend more than comes in

Ticket prices is just one small area of revenue. The price of tickets is not really based purely on costs, because there are more important ways to cover the costs....ad revenue, shirts, parking, so many ways.

I think I am one side of the fence now.

 

[Jimmy James]

I agree with it all. But, the players can make money (not as much perhaps) in the CFL, in other sports if they would have chosen that or something else like the rest of us. Yes they have worked their life to get there and the career is short. THEY chose that however. Sometimes I wish I worked for a union I could bilk. that is my problem. I do not like the power of unions in any business and I feel the owners have rights and are being held ransome.

It's a contract. The owners don't have to agree to **** if they don't want to. It will ruin their sport and their fortunes if they choose that option, but they are completely free to do so.

What you're saying here is that you like the man to have all the power and hate that other people have any option to consolidate their bargaining power.

Back to price. The owners will get what ever they can regardless of the costs you are correct, 100%. They want money, and chasing the buck is how they got where they are, not because how fair or how humanistic they are.

Isn't that all the more reason to deal with them as a collective? Are you saying if you were one of the players, you'd want the union?

 

[Finland]

It's a contract. The owners don't have to agree to **** if they don't want to. It will ruin their sport and their fortunes if they choose that option, but they are completely free to do so.

What you're saying here is that you like the man to have all the power and hate that other people have any option to consolidate their bargaining power.



Isn't that all the more reason to deal with them as a collective? Are you saying if you were one of the players, you'd want the union?

As a fan, I think the NFL is set up great. I want the CBA to get extended. I do not like unions however (auto teachers postal). Outside of government - I think "the man" (business owner) built the business, and he/she should be able to run it without the employees preventing them from doing so.

I think a player plays by choice and if they don't like the laws of the state move out as some philosopher once said.

 

[Jimmy James]

I do not like unions however (auto teachers postal). Outside of government - I think "the man" (business owner) built the business, and he/she should be able to run it without the employees preventing them from doing so.

I think a player plays by choice and if they don't like the laws of the state move out as some philosopher once said.

Man, if I had a time machine, I'd send you to Matewan, WV circa 1920. You'd come away with a very different perspective.