One area in which Saban doesn't seem to be like Bellichick.

[phinfan2003]

And are they all college graduates??

Your examples from Miami which focused on D-line and to a lesser extent an undrafted free agent, were compared to the entire New Englnad team.

I just want to know, how many of New England's "college graduates" play D-line or were UDFAs??

What I'm betting is that they don't play on the D-line, where smarts aren't a prerequisite, and that there aren't many UDFAs counted in with those "college graduates".

I'd have to see how many players on both teams are college graduates to even begin to question what you're implying. With the limited amount of information that you are supplying, it's impossible to say whether you are right or wrong.

I gotcha now. Thanks for clarifying for me.

 

[BlueFin]

Let me preface this thread by saying that I'm not one of those guys that has this "Saban is god" attitude toward our coach. Even though he's worked with arguably the best coach in NFL history, I will wait until he's coached a couple games and won at least 1 SB before I put him on such a high level. On the other hand, I have been very pleased with the offseason and pretty much every move that has been made.

Now let me get to the point. 1 of the many things that people praise about the Pats is how smart they are. They rave about how the Pats have the most amount of college graduates. If this is a requirement of the "Bellichick" type player and according to some Saban follows the same type of system, then why do we go after players like Wright,Vickerson, and to a lesser extent Berlin? Now I know Saban has only had 1 offseason to remake this roster and I'm sure he's brought in some smart players but why would you waste draft picks on guys that don't meet one of your requirements?

Being a college graduate doesn't make you a genius and it sure as hell isn't requirement for success, not in football or in any other part of life.

Don't expect Saban and Belichek to be exactly the same in every way.

Remember, Belichek said he learned more about coaching from Saban than Saban ever learned from him, its possible Saban held some stuff back.

I do agree with one poster who said Saban believes he can develop players, I think he might be better at this than Belichek.

Finally, while Belichek certainly has had a nice run over the last four years I'm not ready to proclaim the best coach in NFL history, lets see what the rest of his career brings first.

 

[BlueFin]

BTW one requirement of playing on Saban's defense is definitely being smart. Not necessary at defensive tackle where we picked up Manny Wright, but at any defensive end/linebacker or safety position a guy has to be really bright. Crowder had an awesome GPA and a 30+ wonderlic. But, just because he left school early (with those knees why wouldn't he?) he's not counted among the coveted belichick college grads.

A lot of intelligent people don't go to college.

 

[phinfan2003]

Being a college graduate doesn't make you a genius and it sure as hell isn't requirement for success, not in football or in any other part of life.

Don't expect Saban and Belichek to be exactly the same in every way.

Remember, Belichek said he learned more about coaching from Saban than Saban ever learned from him, its possible Saban held some stuff back.

I do agree with one poster who said Saban believes he can develop players, I think he might be better at this than Belichek.

Finally, while Belichek certainly has had a nice run over the last four years I'm not ready to proclaim the best coach in NFL history, lets see what the rest of his career brings first.

As much as I hate the Pats, I can't think of a better coach in NFL history than Bellichick. The guy has the best winning PCT. in playoff history. Going back to his days with the Giants (as a DC) and the fact that he's been able to win 3 out of the last 4 SB in this present day is unbelievable. Couple that with the fact that he's been able to win despite key injuries and probably not even the most talented team in NFL history.

 

[phinfan2003]

A lot of intelligent people don't go to college.

I definitely agree w/ you there. In fact some of the dumbest people I know I met in college.

 

[BlueFin]

As much as I hate the Pats, I can't think of a better coach in NFL history than Bellichick. The guy has the best winning PCT. in playoff history. Going back to his days with the Giants and the fact that he's been able to win 3 out of the last 4 SB in this present day is unbelievable. Couple that with the fact that he's been able to win despite key injuries and probably not even the most talented team in NFL history.

Until the whole story is written you can't make that judgement.

In 1974 one could have looked at Shula and said the same thing, he had coached teams to 4 out of the previous 6 Superbowls, he had won back to backs and gone undefeated, he had a tremendous winning percentage going back to Baltimore.

Its only what happened after 1974 thats made some people lower Shula on their list.

If Belichek's teams never win anything else I would hardly call him the greatest ever....its just too early.

By the way, Belichek the head coach doesn't get credit as a head coach for what transpired with the Giants.

 

[phinfan2003]

Until the whole story is written you can't make that judgement.

In 1974 one could have looked at Shula and said the same thing, he had coached teams to 4 out of the previous 6 Superbowls, he had won back to backs and gone undefeated, he had a tremendous winning percentage going back to Baltimore.

Its only what happened after 1974 thats made some people lower Shula on their list.

If Belichek's teams never win anything else I would hardly call him the greatest ever....its just too early.

By the way, Belichek the head coach doesn't get credit as a head coach for what transpired with the Giants.

The difference here is that back then, it was easier to continue your success once you got there because there wasn't as much turnover as there is now. Furthermore, Belichick has won 3 SB in 4 years while Shula only went to 4 out of the 6 but only won 2. Also, I put the "as the DC" in quotes. I realize that he doesn't get credit but his coaching genius was evident even then. If you think about it, up until about 1999, everybody talked about how great a coach Parcells was while no one said anything about Bellichick. Since then, Bellichick has won 3 SB and Parcells hasn't done squat without him. I know you couldn't prove it but you can make a case that Parcells was successful because of Bellichick. In a couple years, we may be saying that Bellichick was successful because Weis/Crennel but right now, I would say that he is the greatest coach in NFL history.

 

[prolific]

Maybe that's not one of his requirements. He and Bellichick may be simialr in alot of ways, but they aren't the same person with all the same requirements.

Excellent point!

 

[BennyVW]

Donnie Spragan is extremely smart. So is Channing crowder.

 

[HybridPHIN 23]

I'm a little confused by what your asking here. The pats DLine consists of Seymour, McGinest, and Wilfork all 1st round draft choices.

Wasn't Ty Warren a 1st rounder as well?

 

[phinfan2003]

Wasn't Ty Warren a 1st rounder as well?

yup

 

[BlueFin]

The difference here is that back then, it was easier to continue your success once you got there because there wasn't as much turnover as there is now. Furthermore, Belichick has won 3 SB in 4 years while Shula only went to 4 out of the 6 but only won 2. Also, I put the "as the DC" in quotes. I realize that he doesn't get credit but his coaching genius was evident even then. If you think about it, up until about 1999, everybody talked about how great a coach Parcells was while no one said anything about Bellichick. Since then, Bellichick has won 3 SB and Parcells hasn't done squat without him. I know you couldn't prove it but you can make a case that Parcells was successful because of Bellichick. In a couple years, we may be saying that Bellichick was successful because Weis/Crennel but right now, I would say that he is the greatest coach in NFL history.

You don't base titles like "Greatest Head Coach in NFL history" on only 4 years of success. (One of which they didn't even make the playoffs)

Later in his career you can possibly make that argument, right now it is premature.

Lombardi won a lot more championships than Belichek has.

As far as it being easier back then, thats debatable, one could make the argument that the league is much more mediocre now as a whole and that its easier for a good team to keep winning.

 

[finsrule84]

Let me preface this thread by saying that I'm not one of those guys that has this "Saban is god" attitude toward our coach. Even though he's worked with arguably the best coach in NFL history, I will wait until he's coached a couple games and won at least 1 SB before I put him on such a high level. On the other hand, I have been very pleased with the offseason and pretty much every move that has been made.

Now let me get to the point. 1 of the many things that people praise about the Pats is how smart they are. They rave about how the Pats have the most amount of college graduates. If this is a requirement of the "Bellichick" type player and according to some Saban follows the same type of system, then why do we go after players like Wright,Vickerson, and to a lesser extent Berlin? Now I know Saban has only had 1 offseason to remake this roster and I'm sure he's brought in some smart players but why would you waste draft picks on guys that don't meet one of your requirements?

why do people have to be such tighta$$es around here? it's football! let's just have some fun, and some of the s**t Ricky's smoking and praise Nick Saban because he can do no wrong

 

[BrazForPhins]

You don't base titles like "Greatest Head Coach in NFL history" on only 4 years of success. (One of which they didn't even make the playoffs)

Later in his career you can possibly make that argument, right now it is premature.

Lombardi won a lot more championships than Belichek has.

As far as it being easier back then, thats debatable, one could make the argument that the league is much more mediocre now as a whole and that its easier for a good team to keep winning.

how many?

 

[BlueFin]

how many?

I believe its 5.