KB, I've had a chance to see every carry Ronnie Brown and Carnell Williams had at Auburn, and ever since Ronnie Brown became the starter in 2002 when Williams went down with a broken leg, I felt like he was the better Running Back(not athlete/blocker/receiver). Auburn fans are split 50/50 who was the better RB. Ronnie Brown didn't get as much love at Auburn as Cadillac because he wasn't the instate recruit who chose Auburn over Alabama. When Carnell chose AU over UA, he became the first 5 star recruit to do so in a while. That is one of the main reasons Brown wasn't as highly publicized as Williams until the draft. I would have a hard time justifying sitting either one, and I think the new OC Borges saw that too and got them both on the field as much as possible to give Auburn the best chance to win. Brown is a winner and will be a stud for many years. I also agree on him finishing runs. He's the hardest RB to bring down I've seen since Walter Payton and he runs over people like Bo Jackson and Herschel Walker
One Final RB comparison before tomorrow
- Thread starter Agent51
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KB21 said:
but you have to remember that someone who carries 13-15 times a game WILL have a higher yards per carry avg. than someone who carries it 20-25 times a game.
Oh, and BTW, check your facts because he didn't "average more yds than the other two by quite a large margin". There OFFICIAL stats are as follows:
Cedric Benson:
Rushes: Yards: Avg:
1,112 5,540 5.0
Carnell Williams:
Rushes: Yards: Avg:
741 3,381 5.2
Ronnie Brown:
Rushes: Yards: Avg:
513 2,207 5.2
So they were pretty much the SAME in YPC, and Benson had more than DOUBLE the carries Brown did, which is pretty impressive. Not to mention 56.1% of his yards came AFTER first contact, that would be 623 yards after contact, that is pretty damn impressive, espcially considering teams used to stack the box against him.
ALfin said:
No, it wasn't, the first FUMBLE was right part the goal line, yeah, it was a TD, but barely, and the second was AS he was going out of bounds. So I guess if you want to praise a player and ride his bandwagon that much you'll justify things that should be negatives. I asked this thread to be based on the HIGHLIGHT REELS, and the people who paid attention to that pretty much agree that Benson's look much better than Brown's. I never wanted to BASH Brown because I don't think he is a bad player and I've said he is talented a million times, I just think Benson is BETTER.
FinNasty
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fin-atic said:
the auburn backs were getting world class blocking and Benson's line wasnt?!?! look at Bensons video again and take a look at his line! they are all over the place making blocks way down field! if u want an easy example to see this look at the last run of the clip... the play started on the 13 yard line and benson had linemen (#61) all the way down the field blocking for him at the 45 yard line! that is 32 yards down field! when u have athletic linemen running down the field with u still blocking people, u are going to be good. dont get me wrong now, benson is very good and will be very good... but dont dare say that Benson didnt have a dominating line and the auburn backs did!
I was in the stadium, saw about 5 replays, and have the tape of that LSU game. He was marked out in between the 3 and 4 on that play. He stepped out, took two more steps and dove toward the goalline like I said. Nowhere on either of those plays was I worried it was going to be ruled a fumble. I mean heck, the one against Kentucky he was in the endzone on the ground before he flips the ball out. Also, Ronnie Brown had 2,707 career rushing yards, not 2,207.
KB21
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Agent51 said:
You are wrong. The more carries you get, the more opportunities you have to break long runs. Benson and Williams had more opportunities for long runs, yet they didn't have as many runs of 30+ yards as Ronnie Brown.
As for the yards per touch numbers, I was basing that off their senior seasons. Ronnie Brown averaged 6.6 yards everytime he touched the ball, rushing and receiving. Benson averaged 5.8 yards per touch. Cadillac averaged 5.2 yards per touch.
I haven't understood that either SabanMinion. Apparently the only reason Carnell Williams got any yards is because of his great vision and the only reason Ronnie Brown got any yard was because of SUPERB OL play.
Auburn currently has 3 4-star OL recruits on their roster from 2002-2004. Texas in that same time span has 1 5-star and 5 4-star OL on their roster. So unless Auburn has an All-World OL coach and UT doesn't, I don't know how in the world Auburn's OL is that much better than UT's.
Auburn currently has 3 4-star OL recruits on their roster from 2002-2004. Texas in that same time span has 1 5-star and 5 4-star OL on their roster. So unless Auburn has an All-World OL coach and UT doesn't, I don't know how in the world Auburn's OL is that much better than UT's.
PhinsPhan
Pro Bowler
KB21 said:
I do think that the more you run the more your average dips. Not because of you chances but because teams gear their defense to stop you. I would believe that when planning to play Auburn teams would prepare more for Caddy because of the 20 carries a game than they would Brown. That being said 6.6 ypc is great in any language.
KB21 said:
No, I PLAYED RB, the more carries you get can LOWER your average more often than raising it. As a game wears on and you start getting tired you don't break off as many long runs, and if you are winning, you don't take it outside as much, you chip away up the middle. The less runs you have the less fatigued you are and the less your total yards are diveded by. Yeah, it CAN boost your avg having more carried, but more often than not it lowers it.
You are wrong when it comes to Brown. In his career, he has averaged 5.41 ypc when he carries the ball 15 or more times. He averages 5.23 ypc when he carries the ball 15 times or less. He's the kind of back that gets stronger as he gets more carries, as cliche as that may be. His average per carry goes up even more when you count just his 20+ carry games
I watched plenty of highlight film, i.e. several seasons worth of watching each of these guys play. They weren't exactly on obscure programs.
Cadillac flashed special ability and elusiveness from the outset. Notice that no one here is debating his running ability or instinct. His detractors can only get desperate and claim he's smaller than the other two and therefore too vulnerable to injury.
On the other hand, note the ongoing debate about Ronnie Brown's instincts. Hint: when there's a question there's a reason for it. If he had instincts there wouldn't be a debate. A nice player who finishes off his runs extremely well, as someone posted. NFL defenders will be happy to smack him to the ground once they realize he can't juke them.
Benson is semi-everything. Not quite tall, big, fast, instinctive or elusive enough. Plenty of 7s and 8s on a 10 scale, but not a single 9 or 10. At #2 you have to aspire for more than that.
Cadillac flashed special ability and elusiveness from the outset. Notice that no one here is debating his running ability or instinct. His detractors can only get desperate and claim he's smaller than the other two and therefore too vulnerable to injury.
On the other hand, note the ongoing debate about Ronnie Brown's instincts. Hint: when there's a question there's a reason for it. If he had instincts there wouldn't be a debate. A nice player who finishes off his runs extremely well, as someone posted. NFL defenders will be happy to smack him to the ground once they realize he can't juke them.
Benson is semi-everything. Not quite tall, big, fast, instinctive or elusive enough. Plenty of 7s and 8s on a 10 scale, but not a single 9 or 10. At #2 you have to aspire for more than that.
KB21 said:
No, what I am trying to say is the less you carry the the less chances you have of the tiny runs that chip away at your average. A guy is going to be a LOT more tired after 25 carries than he is after 15, who has the better chance of ripping off a big run? Plus, you never said SENIOR YEAR in your original post that I was disputing, you just said his average was higher "by far". Either way, their averages were pretty much even, and to that I give the edge to Benson because to carry it over 1,000 times and still have the rushing average close to a guy that carried it 500 something is amazing.
ALfin said:
If you wanna argue he carries better when he carries more, then argue it for Benson too, because his #s were better in the 3rd and 4th, so these arguments are cancelling each other out. The stats I posted were directly from their career stats charts and were career totals, not "senior year" or "in this scenerio" totals, they were just the career totals.
fishbanger
Phin fan since 1970!
:yeahthat:
Ronnie Brown is Roger Craig Clone.
Ronnie Brown is Roger Craig Clone.