Perry has yet to receive waiver to play in NFL/Update: Approved!

[DolfanDuBbZ~]

Given that the Naval academy is considered the third hardest school to get into, it is a given you aren't going there simply to play football.

Of course Harvard is considered the hardest to get into and Fitz does play football.

Does Harvard maintain that you will also have to fulfill your duty after you graduate?

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Devil's advocate
What if the guy gets a chance to star in a feature film?
What if the guy gets an offer to work for the CDC?
What if the guy gets an offer to work for the United Nations?
Or are exceptions made only for athletes?
What criteria should the military use?

He played football for the Naval Academy. They generate a ton of revenue from their football program. The active duty commitment is deferred, not. waived. The policy is due to the short duration of professional sports careers. Both the military and the individuals benefit. Seems like a win/win.

The criteria is being a professional athlete. I think the guidelines are still being developed.

This is entirely due to the perverse relationship between athletics and colleges. For the most part, colleges are intended to prepare people for a career based on some field of academic study. Somehow, colleges became the farm system for some professional sports leagues. You then have this bizarre situation of players pretending to be college students so that they can train to be professional athletes.

The services realize that in order to recruit top talent, a pathway to professional sports must be part of the bargain. So, they have adopted the same perverse relationship where some people training to be officers in the military are also training to be professional athletes. The service academies have upheld better standards but it is still a weird relationship.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Does Harvard maintain that you will also have to fulfill your duty after you graduate?

Tax payers don't cover the cost of a Harvard education.

 

[bward6460]

I'm full of it? Sorry, I know the kid. You don't. I'm aware of what his intentions were. The Naval academy was not his top preference.
For you to suggest you know differently is the most ridiculous thing I've read on this board. Ever. That's saying a lot.

I hate to break this to you, but the "liar, liar pants on fire" argument isn't going to dig you out of the hole you've dug.

I've coached football for decades. Have you? I've seen players that I've coached and coached against move on to college and beyond.
I have insight to what many of these players and their families were thinking. I've spoken to recruiters. I know what their options were. Yet you have the audacity to come back at me with the nonsense above? Unbelievable.

If that isn't enough, I cited several examples, including one name, of players that opted for a military/service academy because it was what they considered at the time to be the best of the limited options available to them in order to further their playing career at the D1 FBS level. Several of them didn't like the fit and moved on to FCS schools.

But that's not good enough for you. Instead, you want to pontificate about how hard you believe it is to gain admission -- which was never the topic of this conversation. You're deflecting.

To be clear, I never stated that service academies offer football/athletic scholarships. I'm fully aware that they do not. But they do have football programs. And since Army, Navy, AF all compete at the D1 FBS level (Citadel is a senior military college and is FCS), they often become options for athletes that aren't receiving interest from many FBS programs and are resistant to playing at the FCS or D2 (or lower) level. The academies do recruit the athletes they believe fit their admission criteria.

BTW, I got news for you. It's not that hard to get in as an accomplished athlete that can put together a coherent sentence with 2 hands and a flashlight. It's been widely publicized in recent years how the acadamies (specifically Army) have relaxed their admission standards in order to be more competitive in sports. The New York Times even authored an article about it. But I digress.

I've not only been involved in the process as a coach, I religiously follow college recruiting. I'm very aware and certain about the things I've witnessed over the decades, and what is still going on today.

To your point, it's painfully clear you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Nor did the other guy, which is what prompted this entire spin off.

So I'm done with you. I already destroyed your less than paper thin belief on this topic.

Wow...

Believe what you want to believe I guess...

 

[EJay]

Military academies are notoriously difficult to get into. They are NOT your local recruitment office.

Fall back option?

I understand that you really have a slanted view of what those academies are and what you think they should be.

And without a nomination, your chances are ZERO of being accepted. Meaning, people have to work years to just get a chance, understanding the back end of the contract and service required after graduation. Those who grow out of it, leave. But West Point and Annapolis are notoriously difficult institutions to join.

And I have zero issues with those who commit and follow through at a young age to meet the criteria needed to be accepted. Kudos to those young people.

There's a different angle to this that you aren't seeing.

Many of the student-athletes that attend service academies have different reasons for doing so than the non-athletes.

I've already outlined several of those reasons and examples in prior posts.

Furthermore, as I've already pointed out, standout athletes that are recruited to the academies are afforded considerations in the nomination and admission process. There are relaxed admission standards in place in an effort to become more competitive in sports. A quick google search revealed the following article from 2013 detailing a bit of what I'm talking about: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/sports/ncaafootball/for-army-football-a-duty-to-win-again.html

You don't seem aware of any of that. You also don't seem to have first hand knowledge and accounts, as I do, of student-athletes that are making these choices and the motives and reasons behind those choices. My advice is to you do some research.

My son graduated HS in 2013. One of his good friends graduated a year later in 2014. His friend was arguably one the top 2 or 3 players on the team and he received moderate recruiting interest. But he didn't end up landing a formal scholarship offer from a couple of the schools he really wanted to attend. Only a PWO from one of the schools w/o a reasonable promise of future scholarship. His family didn't have the means to pay out of pocket and financial assistance wasn't sufficient. Meanwhile Navy had been recruiting him very hard beginning his Junior season.

He ended up choosing Navy. But it wasn't his first choice. And he didn't work for years to get that opportunity. That's the point you guy keep missing with regarding to athletes and recruiting.

While this kid did end up playing ball for 4 years and graduated a couple years back, there are many others that don't stick it out and realize they made a mistake. I personally know of dozens of examples and only mentioned a couple.

But they largely received the opportunity because of their athletic prowess (academies have been taking greater chances on prospects than in the past) and some of the kids only took the opportunity in order to play D1 FBS football.

Believe it or not, some kids buy into the idea that it's more prestigious and impressive to play ball at an FBS program rather than FCS or D2 or D3. So when their options at FBS are limited, some end up choosing an academy for the wrong reasons. And because the academy is trying to win like everyone else, they take a chance on them. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

FWIW, here's a informative article from 2017 detailing how recruiting at service academies works: https://navy.rivals.com/news/understanding-service-academy-recruiting

When you read that article and notice the rise in commitments, it's not hard to connect dots and realize that not all those kids fit into the box you believe they do. Many of them weren't longing to go to a service academy for years. And they didn't put in tireless work to get the opportunity.

So your blanket statement of "This isnt why people go to the academies" is not universally true. It might be true of whomever you know, and it might be true for some student-athletes, but it's far from true for all.

That was my point from the very beginning. Period, end of story.

 

[EJay]

This is entirely due to the perverse relationship between athletics and colleges. For the most part, colleges are intended to prepare people for a career based on some field of academic study. Somehow, colleges became the farm system for some professional sports leagues. You then have this bizarre situation of players pretending to be college students so that they can train to be professional athletes.

The services realize that in order to recruit top talent, a pathway to professional sports must be part of the bargain. So, they have adopted the same perverse relationship where some people training to be officers in the military are also training to be professional athletes. The service academies have upheld better standards but it is still a weird relationship.

You clearly have a firm understand how this all works. Great points.

Not all, but there are many prospective student-athletes that are considering and evaluating service academies in the same manner they do standard universities. As a means to an end.

They have the pipe dream of one day playing pro, and are looking for the best opportunity to accomplish that. Sometimes they have smart parents that steer them to a university that will provide them a fantastic fall back education. And sometimes that fantastic fall back education is a service academy.

And, as I've pointed out too many times now, I've seen many cases where the service academy was chosen because it was one of the few, if not the only, D1 FBS options the athlete had. In many of the cases where that seemed to be the primary reason for the choice (plus they were open to the idea that "hey, maybe I could learn to fly a jet!") they ended up figuring out that military life wasn't for them and secured their release then transferred down to an FCS program.

With the academies stepping up their recruiting efforts and affording considerations in the nomination and admission processes, it increases the possibility of more and more kids that weren't already overly intrigued with the idea of service academies making the same choice. I believe the increase in recruiting classes bears that out.

 

[DolfanDuBbZ~]

There's a different angle to this that you aren't seeing.

Many of the student-athletes that attend service academies have different reasons for doing so than the non-athletes.

I've already outlined several of those reasons and examples in prior posts.

Furthermore, as I've already pointed out, standout athletes that are recruited to the academies are afforded considerations in the nomination and admission process. There are relaxed admission standards in place in an effort to become more competitive in sports. A quick google search revealed the following article from 2013 detailing a bit of what I'm talking about: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/sports/ncaafootball/for-army-football-a-duty-to-win-again.html

You don't seem aware of any of that. You also don't seem to have first hand knowledge and accounts, as I do, of student-athletes that are making these choices and the motives and reasons behind those choices. My advice is to you do some research.

My son graduated HS in 2013. One of his good friends graduated a year later in 2014. His friend was arguably one the top 2 or 3 players on the team and he received moderate recruiting interest. But he didn't end up landing a formal scholarship offer from a couple of the schools he really wanted to attend. Only a PWO from one of the schools w/o a reasonable promise of future scholarship. His family didn't have the means to pay out of pocket and financial assistance wasn't sufficient. Meanwhile Navy had been recruiting him very hard beginning his Junior season.

He ended up choosing Navy. But it wasn't his first choice. And he didn't work for years to get that opportunity. That's the point you guy keep missing with regarding to athletes and recruiting.

While this kid did end up playing ball for 4 years and graduated a couple years back, there are many others that don't stick it out and realize they made a mistake. I personally know of dozens of examples and only mentioned a couple.

But they largely received the opportunity because of their athletic prowess (academies have been taking greater chances on prospects than in the past) and some of the kids only took the opportunity in order to play D1 FBS football.

Believe it or not, some kids buy into the idea that it's more prestigious and impressive to play ball at an FBS program rather than FCS or D2 or D3. So when their options at FBS are limited, some end up choosing an academy for the wrong reasons. And because the academy is trying to win like everyone else, they take a chance on them. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

FWIW, here's a informative article from 2017 detailing how recruiting at service academies works: https://navy.rivals.com/news/understanding-service-academy-recruiting

When you read that article and notice the rise in commitments, it's not hard to connect dots and realize that not all those kids fit into the box you believe they do. Many of them weren't longing to go to a service academy for years. And they didn't put in tireless work to get the opportunity.

So your blanket statement of "This isnt why people go to the academies" is not universally true. It might be true of whomever you know, and it might be true for some student-athletes, but it's far from true for all.

That was my point from the very beginning. Period, end of story.

I walked away once I read you tried to compare the Citadel or the Air Force College, to the specific institutions I listed.
I wont bother reading most of anything you said, because I specifically tried to limit to Annapolis (player school in question) and West Point.

I understand the fliers given. But those who goto these USMA are not there for plan B. That is Plan A. They spend their HS years building up a resume to just get a chance to lobby for entry.

I admire that dedication from young peoples. We need more of it now days.

 

[bward6460]

I walked away once I read you tried to compare the Citadel or the Air Force College, to the specific institutions I listed.
I wont bother reading most of anything you said, because I specifically tried to limit to Annapolis (player school in question) and West Point.

I understand the fliers given. But those who goto these USMA are not there for plan B. That is Plan A. They spend their HS years building up a resume to just get a chance to lobby for entry.

I admire that dedication from young peoples. We need more of it now days.

Agreed. The hard work and dedication put into getting that recommendation for an academy is outstanding. Putting out the level of dedication needed can not be conceivably considered a Plan B. Hypothetically, its comparable to Roger Federer claiming he mastered tennis as a backup plan to not becoming a PGA Tour player...

 

[finomenal]

So now your being combative. Hypocrite.

Not only that, it was I that didn’t agree with him. Not the other way around. And I clearly explained why.

PSA to you: when someone emphatically states opinion as fact and/or provides incorrect info, they open themselves up to correction and criticism.

If they can be bold, so can those responding to them. No need for hurt feelings ... like your 14. If you can’t handle the heat .... you know the rest.

you're*

 

[EJay]

you're*

I make that error a lot more than I like, unfortunately. I usually catch it in proof reading, but missed that one apparently.

Doesn’t help when I use the iPad either. IMO worst keyboard ever. I constantly have to fight with it.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

He still served active duty. Many here for some unknown reasons think even that is too much.

So which is closer to the full commitment, serving an abbreviated 2 years immediately after graduation or the full 5 years after your professional career is done?

You do not get into those academies for professional sports.

Most don't. The same can be said for college. Most don't go to college for professional sports. That doesn't mean none do.

 

[1972forever]

Does Harvard maintain that you will also have to fulfill your duty after you graduate?

The different is that anyone who attends a service academy gets to his or her education paid for by the taxpayers. As part of this educational agreement between the taxpayers and the student, the student is required to serve in the military for a certain number of years after graduation.
‘Harvard and other public and private universities don’t have this same requirement since the students attending these colleges do not receive a free education for every student who attends these schools.

 

[DolfinJohnNY]

Sooooooo... has PERRY received his waiver yet?

 

[Nublar7]

Perry got his request approved!

I know it is the time of year to overhype draft picks, but I am really excited to see what Perry can do for us.

Malcolm Perry receives formal approval from Navy, signs NFL contract with Miami Dolphins

Malcolm Perry’s career in the National Football League is all set to move forward. The former Navy standout has received formal approval to pursue professional football and subsequently signe…

www.capitalgazette.com

 

[CANDolphan]

Given that the Naval academy is considered the third hardest school to get into, it is a given you aren't going there simply to play football.

Of course Harvard is considered the hardest to get into and Fitz does play football.

harvard hasn’t been the hardest since... lord... 2003?