PFF rates the Dolphins

[tay0365]

To be fair I think Jay Cutler is a decent quarterback, but if you put a gun to my head and encouraged me to say he was better than Andrew Luck, I still wouldn't do it.

I have no problem with Cutler either, but he will make dumb mistake at times at the worse possible moment....if I could have him or Romo as Miami QB, would I take it..yes, would I take either over Tannehill. As good as they are, I feel Tannehill could have a very good future when it's all set and done, so I don't think I would....could be wrong, but that what I believe.

 

[dlockz]

Manning
Rodgers
Brady
Rivers
Brees
Roethlisberger
Romo

The next group includes Matt Ryan, Luck, Wilson, Tannehill, Cutler, Stafford, Smith, Kaep, Newton, Flacco, Foles, Dalton, RGIII (assuming he gets back to 2012 form), etc. All have significant flaws or are unfinished products. IMO, that's 8-20 that can be arranged in a variety of ways.

I just can't get excited about Wilson. He hasn't played well over the last 5 or 6 weeks.

Just to take three players u mention for the sake of argument. How would anybody rank Tannehill over Ryan, Luck or Wilson.
There is no variety of ways that at this point Tannehill has performed at the same level as these guys.

 

[hoops]

Just to take three players u mention for the sake of argument. How would anybody rank Tannehill over Ryan, Luck or Wilson.
There is no variety of ways that at this point Tannehill has performed at the same level as these guys.

i'm pretty sure you were saying the same thing about rg3 last year...

 

[dlockz]

i'm pretty sure you were saying the same thing about rg3 after last year...

Last year it was true. Now we have two seasons to judge them on. Last year people were pimping Joe Flacco as an elite qb and after this past season Im sure people have reaccessed his play.
If RG3 had performed at the same level I would still say the same thing but he was not as good this season.
Maybe Im not understanding what you are trying to point out. As rookies RG3 was the better qb, as second year qb's they seemed on a similar level.

 

[ohall]

So called objective evidence. Because its subjective how you choose to view the correlation to being a good qb and YPA. My problem with YPA is you can still throw a ton of interceptions and still have a high YPA.
That's why a guy like Scott Tolzien has a very good YPA of 8 but still had 5 int versus 1 td. There are other issues but this is one of the biggest

---------- Post added at 09:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 AM ----------



I do agree though that Tannehill is not the 7th best qb in the league at this point.

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Aaron Rdgers
Phillip rivers
Drew Brees
Russel Wilson
Andrew Luck

all 7 are definitely better than him at this point.
I could easily name 3 better so he is not a top 10 qb yet

Wait are you now a Ryan hater?

 

[dlockz]

Wait are you now a Ryan hater?

Ryan Tannehill or Matt Ryan. I assumed you meant Tannehill but making sure. I will answer both.
Tannehill is not one of the ten best qb's playing the game yet, I think he has a good chance to be.
Matt Ryan has not played better than these guys and you have to base a lot on this year. Matt Ryan is a top 10 qb in the NFL I just feel the guys I mentioned no one could argue that Tannehill was better than with any real substance. Ryan was on my mind on this but his play this year was not up to the level of the other guys I mentioned.

---------- Post added at 06:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:45 PM ----------

Ryan Tannehill or Matt Ryan. I assumed you meant Tannehill but making sure. I will answer both.
Tannehill is not one of the ten best qb's playing the game yet, I think he has a good chance to be.
Matt Ryan has not played better than these guys and you have to base a lot on this year. Matt Ryan is a top 10 qb in the NFL I just feel the guys I mentioned no one could argue that Tannehill was better than with any real substance. Ryan was on my mind on this but his play this year was not up to the level of the other guys I mentioned.

So Im not a hater of either Ryan. Matt Ryan is a wonderful NFL qb and I think Ryan Tannehill is developing into a good NFL qb. Not as big a fan of Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Just to take three players u mention for the sake of argument. How would anybody rank Tannehill over Ryan, Luck or Wilson.
There is no variety of ways that at this point Tannehill has performed at the same level as these guys.

There is just no way to separate these guys clearly. Luck and Tannehill were nearly identical statistically this year. Wilson is largely carried by his team. Ryan showed what happens when he doesn't have elite talent around him. That being said, I wouldn't argue with you if you ranked them Luck, Ryan, Wilson, Tannehill.

This was from earlier in the season, I largely agree with it.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1801913-miami-dolphins-revisiting-ryan-tannehills-place-within-the-2012-qb-class

Two more largely positive articles

http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/goingdeep/2013/12/ryan_tannehill_dolphins_develo.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1923864-analyzing-miami-dolphins-qb-ryan-tannehills-sophomore-season

 

[dlockz]

There is just no way to separate these guys clearly. Luck and Tannehill were nearly identical statistically this year. Wilson is largely carried by his team. Ryan showed what happens when he doesn't have elite talent around him. That being said, I wouldn't argue with you if you ranked them Luck, Ryan, Wilson, Tannehill.

This was from earlier in the season, I largely agree with it.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1801913-miami-dolphins-revisiting-ryan-tannehills-place-within-the-2012-qb-class

Two more largely positive articles

http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/goingdeep/2013/12/ryan_tannehill_dolphins_develo.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1923864-analyzing-miami-dolphins-qb-ryan-tannehills-sophomore-season

How is 23 tds and 9 Int virtually identical to 24 tds and 17 int.
That's a big difference in interception percentage.
Tannehill threw twice as many interceptions. As for Wilson I don't get the argument he is carried by his team

 

[Shouright]

Luck and Tannehill were nearly identical statistically this year.

Other than in the area of clutch play, where Luck was head and shoulders better. Tannehill was slightly below average, whereas Luck was nearly a standard deviation above average. Luck was also considerably better in the area of expected points added per play.

Clutch play (measured by WPA per game) by the quarterback alone correlates with win percentage at 0.73, and EPA per play by the quarterback alone also correlates with win percentage at 0.73, so it's not like these are meaningless statistics or areas of quarterback play. They're likely a big reason why, despite Luck's indistinctive numbers from Tannehill in other areas, the Colts finished 11-5 and in the playoffs, whereas the Dolphins finished 8-8 and at home.

And I'll let you guess (easily) which two games of the year were among the worst for Tannehill in these areas. And neither of these statistics were strongly (or even moderately) correlated game-to-game in 2013 for Tannehill with rushes, rushing yards, yards per carry, sacks, or offensive balance (run versus pass percentage).

 

[Shouright]

As for Wilson I don't get the argument he is carried by his team

I wish anyone luck in supporting that objectively. You can start by correlating Wilson's play with other of his team's variables, though I doubt anyone will put forth the work. It's easier to just believe something in theory.

 

[dlockz]

I wish anyone luck in supporting that objectively. You can start by correlating Wilson's play with other of his team's variables, though I doubt anyone will put forth the work. It's easier to just believe something in theory.

I think its a way to discredit another player that was taken with Tannehill. People are acting like he has an all pro set of receivers and before Seattle acquired Lynch people were acting like he wasn't very good.
Wilson is a top flight qb whether we like it or not and the level of play is quite a ways above Tannehill at this point. In two years Wilson has 52 tds and 19 and a passer rating of 100, the guy is a damn good qb and a pro bowler for good reason.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

How is 23 tds and 9 Int virtually identical to 24 tds and 17 int.
That's a big difference in interception percentage.
Tannehill threw twice as many interceptions. As for Wilson I don't get the argument he is carried by his team

Luck is the better QB but he is hugely over rated right now. He is being treated like the QB he is likely to become not the QB that he is now.

As for Wilson, I'm not the only one that feels that way. When you win games while going 9-18 for 103, you are being carried by your team. This was from one of the articles I linked:

Wilson is what we thought he was: a short quarterback who can manage a team and who should be drafted in the third round. Seattle's signal-caller has received too much credit for his team's success.

Wilson is 29th in the NFL in passing yards per game (199.4). In terms of passing, PFF ranks Wilson 26th with a negative passer rating (minus-2.9).

Defenses are catching up to the read-option, and Wilson's season is on the decline. Wilson has had consecutive stinkers. In Week 4, against the Houston Texans, he completed 12 of 23 passes (52.2 percent) for 123 yards, no touchdowns and an interception. In Week 5, against the Indianapolis Colts, he completed 15 of 31 passes (48.4 percent) for 210 yards, two touchdowns and an interception.

Tannehill would have lost games with numbers like Wilson posted and been roasted on this forum for it.

I asked this in another post, have you watched a Dolphins game in the last 2 years and thought to yourself "Tannehill is off today, the running game will have to win it for them"? Seattle beat SF early in the season in a game where Wilson completed EIGHT passes. They scored 29 points when their QB completed EIGHT passes. There is no way that happens with the Dolphins. Similar games for Wilson have happened numerous times in the last two seasons. In those games, he played no better than Tannehill did against the Bills and Jets. The difference is that his defense and running game picks up the slack many times. I'm shocked that people can't see the difference.

 

[Shouright]

Luck is the better QB but he is hugely over rated right now. He is being treated like the QB he is likely to become not the QB that he is now.

Ironically, the only way to determine that is with the same statistics that are discounted when evaluating Tannehill.

Are those statistics valid in evaluating one QB, and invalid when evaluating another?

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Ironically, the only way to determine that is with the same statistics that are discounted when evaluating Tannehill.

Are those statistics valid in evaluating one QB, and invalid when evaluating another?

When you start a post with an incorrect assumption, you are likely to conclude it with an incorrect allusion.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

I think its a way to discredit another player that was taken with Tannehill. People are acting like he has an all pro set of receivers and before Seattle acquired Lynch people were acting like he wasn't very good.
Wilson is a top flight qb whether we like it or not and the level of play is quite a ways above Tannehill at this point. In two years Wilson has 52 tds and 19 and a passer rating of 100, the guy is a damn good qb and a pro bowler for good reason.

And that somehow diminishes the fact that he has rushed for more than 2800 yards over the last two seasons? Team dynamics change over time. IMO, we can't fully judge Wilson until we see how he responds to being the focal point of the offense.